Boeing 737

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LovelyLadyLux
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Boeing 737

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:17 pm

With the crash of Boeing 737 going to Kenya we have lost 15 Canadians and one young man from the Island. He was a First Nations fellow from the next city up Island. He had a degree in Environmental Science and was going to consult. Really tragic to have your life ended so soon. Am sure there will be local memorials for him.

Given this is the second 737 to crash in under 6 months many countries have opted to ground them pending it is figured out why they are crashing. Unfortunately Canada is refusing to do this. The Gov't is not saying 'why' they are not taking this action as many other countries have.

To try and exemplify they are safe we have a high level Canadian Gov't official getting on one this morning.......would you?



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Re: Boeing 737

Post by Grandad » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:38 pm

I think we need to be specific about this aircraft. There are thousands of 737's flying around the world since their launch more than 50 years ago. The model is upgraded and redesigned to suit changing needs such as fuel efficiency. The current model is the Boeing 737-8 Max.
The UK Aviation Authority has issued a ban on this aircraft from flying over UK airspace. There are two operators flying this model from UK airports, TUI and Norwegian Air, and they have to ground any aircraft at present in the UK.
Would I fly in one today? Yes I would. And why? Because it is well known now that there is a software glitch that can occur BUT pilots should be aware of the over ride for this. There are already claims that pilots have not been trained in this BUT surely in the last few days ALL pilots will have been trained OR if not then the pilots would refuse to fly. I am sure they would not put their own skin at risk.
:gg:

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Re: Boeing 737

Post by Grandad » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:00 am

Just to clarify a little, any aircraft is at risk of stalling if its climb rate is too steep and there is insufficient power to maintain that steep climb. The aircraft could actually stop moving forward and turn and fall to earth.
Civil and military aircraft have always had an alarm that operates to warn the pilot that he is approaching stall conditions and must correct the climb rate. These 737's apparently have an automatic system that lowers the nose if this stall condition is approached.
The pilot can then over ride the automatic system and take control. There are reports that some pilots have not been trained in this over ride action and that MAY have contributed to these 2 disasters.
I am certainly no authority on this and am only repeating what I have heard from people far more knowledgeable than me on this matter.
On that basis and accepting that pilots have been trained on this, I would fly in a 737-8 Max without hesitation.
In the short term it sounds as if Boeing need to put in some urgent modification to its auto flight system.
:gg:

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Re: Boeing 737

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:30 pm

@Grandad - Our TV is taken over today with the sentencing of Paul Manafort of the USA so all discussion re: Boeing 737 is gone but I think I saw a ticker line flash by that Canada has now grounded all of our 737s (but not sure). I'd hope they would be looking at each of our planes and giving all the Pilots whatever training they need to make sure other planes are not going to be crashing down out of the sky.

My only wonder is IF or DOES that software somehow glitch and take over hence stopping the Pilot from manually bringing the nose of the plane back up?

I fully understand how terrific it is that planes/trains/autos now operate with wifi doing all sorts of wonderful things but personally I don't TRUST their judgment. I'd hope that there is no issue or problem at all with a Pilot taking over control.

I sometimes think we're all becoming way to dependent on computers/wifi/cyber world and we're forgetting how to do things the old fashioned way with our own two hands powered by our own brain!

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Re: Boeing 737

Post by Grandad » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:55 pm

As I said LLL, I am only quoting what has been said on the media. So far 350 of this model 737 have been delivered since they were launched nearly two years ago and more than 5,000 are on order.
As I understand it, this auto non stall system can be over ridden by the pilot. However, I have heard that there may, and I repeat MAY, be instances where pilots have not received this specific training.
They have both black boxes which are being brought to Europe for analysis and hopefully they will provide some answers.
Many many years ago I had a Microsoft flight simulator and even this sounded alarm if the 'cyber' aircraft was at risk of stalling. So this is not new...
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Re: Boeing 737

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:13 pm

Will be interesting to see & hear what the black boxes say and am happy to hear they're actually sending the black boxes to Europe for analysis.

Ahh - just hearing right now on the TV news (they're taking a 2 minute break from talking non-stop about Paul Manafort) - Apparently the Pilots are saying that they've reported 'problems' with this plane. One Captain has gone on record saying the manual is 'inadequate.' The FAA is still resisting grounding them in the USA. AND, of course, the American news is saying IF the black box was shipped to the USA as soon as it was found we'd all know by now what the recorder said.

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Re: Boeing 737

Post by Grandad » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:19 pm

Just heard on the news that the CAA are now grounding all 737 Max 8's in the US.
Inevitable I suppose in the light of public opinion..
:gg:

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Re: Boeing 737

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:35 am

Just home with the TV on and am seeing that both Canada and the USA have grounded all 737s. I guess they had to due to public pressure and I think some Union pressure from Stewards/Stewardesses/Pilots. Hopefully they can get on with investigating them so they can come to a resolution of this matter and get everybody up and flying around again. I can't imagine what Airports and Airlines are doing if they've sold the tickets and now don't have the planes.

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Re: Boeing 737

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:38 pm

Saw a map of North America showing when all the 737s were flying (dots everywhere) and right now (counted 4 dots). Not too sure how long it was take but the News today is featuring lots of passengers who they're talking to whose travel plans have been disrupted. Wonder how long it'll take to get them up and flying again.