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 Post subject: Boys in the Thai Cave
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:07 pm  |  Posted from: Canada
  

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Have been watching and following the sage of the Thai boys who are stuck in the cave in Thailand. What an absolutely horror story for them. Not sure who if anybody 'planned' to even take a team of young boys way into a cave that 'could' flood during rainy season. Parents have to be frantic and beside themselves and I've heard different reports that they're 1 to 2.5 miles underground.

I have snorkelled and can swim well but learning how to dive that far in total darkness - not optimistic that that would really be an option especially for a non-swimmer. I'm starting to think if they can get to them that although it might take a couple of months the best bet would be to wait 'til the waters go down or down sufficient that the swim isn't that far. Not sure I'd make it a mile underwater.

Being children here's hoping they're resilient and that this can be seen as an adventure they can talk about for the rest of their lives. Hopefully dry clothing and food is getting to them so that is, at least, one positive.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:00 pm  |  Posted from: France
  

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There is a very interesting article here, which holds out some hope for a quick escape. I do hope they do get out before the monsoon strikes.
https://www.livescience.com/62989-thai- ... ?utm_sourc

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:38 am  |  Posted from: Canada
  

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@FABlux - Very interesting article. Personally I think the only way to get the boys out will be to have them dive and swim out with the help of a couple of divers.

I don't know how long it would take to swim the entire length of the cave but with LOTS of air and not stopping (if a kid was going to panic and they got so far and then got out they may refuse or be too scared to go back in and complete the dive) it would work.

Hopefully this can be resolved quickly and safely for everybody.

I can't imagine operating in dead dark with absolutely not light at all. Very disorienting.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:55 am  |  Posted from: Canada
  

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Just saw a ticker line report on the Evening News that one of the Divers trying to set up with the boys has died. No other details. Totally awful and so tragic. Definitely hope they can get these kids out without incident or mishap.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:20 am  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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I've seen a report that said he ran out of oxygen while moving tanks of oxygen to the stranded boys.
That doesn't make sense to me. Navy Seal very experienced didn't check his oxygen? He was carrying oxygen for the boys why not use it? I'm so sorry that he died, obviously a very brave man, but I would guess that he did not run out of oxygen but died from another cause. It doesn't matter what in one sense because it won't bring him back - but it might save other deaths during the rescue if we find out the real cause.

There is hope in another direction - the boys are sure they heard dogs barking and distant sound of people's voices. Obviously there is a source of air coming through the maze of tunnels and they are hoping to find a way of rescuing them from above.

A terrible time for the boys and equally bad for their families. The effects of this situation will affect a huge number of people for generations.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:31 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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So far I have not commented on this as to be honest it sends me into a state of anxiety, why you may ask, well quite simply it would be my worst nightmare to be trapped in similar conditions, I feel my pulse start to race at just the thought of it. To complicate matters I used to despite my obvious claustrophobia go caving in the UK, but it was always at the expense of suppressing my fear of being closed in or unable to get out. At the time I overcame my fear, but even now I will shudder if I think of the potential for being in that situation again, I simply could not do it again.

We would crawl through some very tight passages and abseil down 100 foot pitches with water pouring over our heads and some caves had the same risk of flooding should the weather turn bad while you were underground. Some situations required you to hold your breath and submerge yourself and work your way through a tube like passageway of maybe 30 foot in length before popping up again in another air void or small cave, often referred to as a ‘duck’. This situation is 50 times worse for these boys and I replay in my mind the fear and panic that they could experience doing some of this proposed escape. Unfortunately some of these passages are very narrow and require the air tanks to be removed before you can pass through, that will be a terrifying experience for these poor lads, there cannot be anything worse in my mind than to be submerged and unable to get your head up out of the water.

I wish to god if he exists that they can find another way to free them than this awful ordeal, or even if it were possible to widen the narrow parts and in some way to quickly haul then through the submerged sections, believe me when you are in those conditions even if it is just water pouring over you it is extremely hard to react efficiently and calmly if a problem occurs. My heart goes out to those kids and I know that now I could not do that long submerged section, I would prefer to just die down there and I say that in all seriousness. I will go back to ignoring the news coverage until such time as they put up a banner to say that they are out again, I find it too stressful watching the coverage.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:43 pm  |  Posted from: Canada
  

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@Horus - to me this is absolutely the worst case scenario in the world ever. I cannot at all go into a hole in the ground as my fear of being trapped is worse than being in the hole. I too can feel my pulse rise just thinking about this. Couldn't do it for a second.

Am seeing on the news now that the Diver who passed simply ran out of oxygen which is a bit of a puzzle as you'd think an experience diver would know first hand the dangers of running out of oxygen. Personally I think the equipment they're using is probably NOT top notch and possibly his gauge said FULL when indeed it was not.

I can't see for a second how they're going to get these boys out going underwater and underground. IF panic sets in and it is 99.9% a probability in my own opinion these boys will thrash and fight and become uncontrollable. You can't reason anybody out of this when the body starts giving the signal - "you are going to die!"

I think they'd have to almost lightly sedate the boys to get them out but ?? Light anti-anxiety sedation keeps coming to me but on the other hand that would also be crazy as medication on a child isn't as reliable in outcome as it is on an adult.

I can only hope there is some way to dig them out from somewhere else but that takes time.

I'd HOPE if there are any other caves like this that they totally bar up the entrance so nobody can get in!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:55 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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I have also resisted the temptation to add my two-penneth.

I know nothing about caving or potholing and the only caves I have ever been in are those that are visitor attractions in different parts of the world.

So I will just shut up and leave it to the professionals to find a way for a satisfactory conclusion.

Remember the Chile miners trapped and saved a few years ago. Something like that may well be the answer in this case, who knows?

My thoughts are with those kids and their coach, their families, and the very brave ex military diver, Saman Kunan, who gave his life in the pursuit of their recovery. RIP very brave man.....

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:54 am  |  Posted from: Canada
  

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I can't hardly even want to think about the Chilean Miners. What an absolutely horror being trapped so far down in a cave. I don't remember how long they were down there but it was an exceedingly long time and an absolute miracle they got saved. I watched the movie made about their ordeal and somewhere I read though that some of them had real significant mental health issues afterwards (understandably).

Definitely hope these young kids can be saved.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:00 pm  |  Posted from: France
  

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I think you are very brave to have been caving Horus. As another one with claustrophobia I cannot imagine going down into a cave, I only just coped with Cheddar Gorge :oops:

Further info on the tragic loss of life of the rescue diver here:-

https://www.livescience.com/63001-thai- ... ium=social

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:16 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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It wasn't so much bravery Fablux but rather supressing a great fear of confined spaces. Once underground I was usually OK, but I had to know the route and what the challenges were regarding tight spaces and crawls, I could even cope with lying on my back with water lapping around my mouth and the rock face directly over my face, but only because I knew that the distance we had to shuffle along was say 50 feet and then another space would open up. My own personal fear is not so much the being underground as I used to work in Copper and Gold mines that were thousands of feet deep, it is one of being confined in a tight space, I shudder at the very thought even now. :sd

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:11 pm  |  Posted from: Canada
  

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I don't go up high or down into holes. Just couldn't. Just can't.

Watching the update on the boys this morning and listening to the different experts talk about issues they'll face with panic being the prime #1 concern. They're talking full face masks and other technical concerns.

I think the boys being kids can be pulled and pushed along. Their coach might be another matter. Am sure the poor guy is beside himself at bringing the boys into the cave but I can also understand the 'why' he would do this with a group of young kids + explore + great fun 'til it ceases to be.

I also saw that Elan Musk has sent to specialists to try and (I think) explore other ways to extract the kids.

As a parent I'd want my child back yesterday but I'd be scared spitless to have them pulled through the water.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:55 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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Thank whatever entity you want, but the latest news is that two boys have been brought out, I am so proud of our British divers that have contributed so much and seem to be leading the rescue attempt, roll on midnight or whenever when they get them all out safely. :up

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:58 pm  |  Posted from: France
  

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6 out now :D At least the ones left must be reassured knowing that their friends have done it and so that will hopefully ease some of their fears before setting off. I hope the support will be in place for them to get over this dreadful ordeal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:26 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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Actually there are 4 out so far FAB. There will now be a break of about 10 hours before the next rescue. They bring the boys out one at a time each with two professional divers. There are a total of 90 divers at the site from Thailand and around the world and each rescue takes about 11 hours from when the rescuers leave the base until they return. So this is going to be a long process but the results so far could not be better except for the loss of Saman Kunan

I agree with Horus and applaud the two British divers who initially found a way through to the boys and their coach.

Here's hoping that the final outcome will be complete success.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:42 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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They are proposing to bring out two more groups each with three children, then finally two children plus the coach. When I heard this I thought to myself "someone is really giving this some thought" as my initial assumption was three groups of four and then the coach, at least there will be no 'last man' so to speak. Lets just hope that they pull this off without any hitches, those kids and the rescue teams deserve that, their bravery is beyond doubt. Once they are all out safe and sound I may tell you a funny story of being 'the last man out' of something similar, but now is not the time for jest.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:03 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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The plan is for a single child to be tethered to a lead diver who will then control the Oxygen tanks that he alone will be carrying and not the child. A tube will connect to the childs full face mask plus a communications link so they can talk to the child and no doubt reasure them. Behind those two will be another diver to ensure everything is going to plan, this will need to be done for each child and adult, so we can see why it will take so long, it will be a long two days :(

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:22 pm  |  Posted from: France
  

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Sorry it was a news report that now says "The remaining eight boys and their coach remain at the original underground location near to Pattaya beach, suggesting that previous reports that six boys had been freed were inaccurate."

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:28 pm  |  Posted from: Canada
  

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TERRIFIC that they got out 4 successfully. Being able to talk to the boys and hopefully keep them distracted enough so as to not panic is crucial. This is fantastic what they've done and I can't even in my worst nightmare imagine how this is going.

Can only HOPE the monsoons keep away long enough for them to get everybody out. This could be a tragedy in the making but hopefully they'll rescue all of them with no loss of life at all.

Fingers crossed and hoping it can be carried off without a hitch.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:50 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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It would not surprise me that we in the UK awake to the news that another 3 have been brought out during the night :up

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