Meat

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Mad Dilys
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Meat

Post by Mad Dilys »

Thank you Horus for your Halal branding information, it made me think about meat and how it gets on our plate.

I know how it gets there by simple experience and most people would rather not know.

As I have been an organic farmer raising largely free range cattle, pigs sheep, goats, ducks, geese and poultry for sale before I was a practising Muslim, I became privy to the atrocities of the British Meat Trade from the early 60's onwards.

My husband The Vet was an approved Inspector of registered slaughterhouses and the animals and meat they produced so he showed me the subtle signs of how bad slaughter practice affected the meat.

I also knew someone who had worked in an abattoir - not for long though.

I didn't like sending animals for slaughter via a market.

So I used a local butcher who had approved killing facilities. I took them by appointment to a kind and efficient man who handled them with care and respect. My animals had a 4 mile road trip and on arrival at his premises went straight in for killing without being held in crowded strange surroundings with the smell of blood. I only took one or two at a time, making a return journey back to the farm for the next ones. I found that by the time I got there the first ones were killed, prepared and on the hook in the chiller. I left them there for 24 hours to chill through then brought them home where I butchered them myself.

When the small slaughter houses were closed down in favour of abattoirs I tried the two available within 10 miles - but the meat showed bad practice. The Vet inspection from one stated that one pigs head had been destroyed for TB in the brain! My husband immediately asked for evidence of this and was fobbed off. I found that a few kg expensive cuts of beef would be missing from each animal.

That was the end of raising animals for meat for me.

Killing practice has improved in recent years but I always hated stunning because if you are stunned you may be semi-conscious and capable of feeling. If you have seen cattle hung by one leg over the bleeding trough, kicking while they bleed out - it might give one pause for thought.

Kosher and Halal killing properly practiced (not on a doorstep) will prevent blood reaching the brain almost immediately - before and after that there is little difference in producing meat for the consumer.

I eat meat beacuse I have digestive problems which mean most other protein sources are denied me - beans, nuts etc. Ideally I eat meat twice a week and fish five times a week and wish I could be fully vegetarian.


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Re: Meat

Post by Horus »

Yes I am very familiar with abattoirs and food production and agree with you that the practices in both industries would put most people off eating meat for life. Where I disagree is that Halal is a kinder way of killing, after the stunning which takes place with most animals then they are bled out the same way as with Halal meat, so the only difference I can see is one is stunned and one is not. I have seen plenty of examples of Halal animals in distress so it is not unique to one method of killing. You like myself can make a choice as to what you consider to be the best method of humanely killing the animal, but I do object to having to be a party to a method that I disagree with because a supplier wishes to cover all angles. Not only that but who says that I want any religious words spoken over my food, would Muslims be happy if a Catholic priest had said a prayer over a piece of fish they had bought?
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Mad Dilys
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Re: Meat

Post by Mad Dilys »

Horus wrote:I have seen plenty of examples of Halal animals in distress so it is not unique to one method of killing. You like myself can make a choice as to what you consider to be the best method of humanely killing the animal, but I do object to having to be a party to a method that I disagree with because a supplier wishes to cover all angles. Not only that but who says that I want any religious words spoken over my food, would Muslims be happy if a Catholic priest had said a prayer over a piece of fish they had bought?
I couldn't agree more Horus. I can only speak for myself but it wouldn't make the slightest difference to me if someone uttered prayers or said anything at all over fish I was going to eat. What is more important to me is that I should whisper a prayer over it before I eat that fixes any problem for me.

I am quite worried by the way tradition and religion get mixed up. Semi-literate people through no fault of their own misunderstand that there is a difference and it's important.

My studies have shown that the Islam I believe in is forgiving - if you are starving you eat anything, doesn't matter if it is pork or anything non halal you have to try to survive.

I know someone in Luxor who is a Haj now, but when he was a young lad his best friend was a Christian. One day his friend gave him a sandwich and watched him eat it - then told him it was pork for a childish joke. The Muslim asked his father what he should do - Nothing! Said his father, you ate it in innocence, no problem but now is perhaps the time I should tell you that not all people live by the same religious beliefs. ;)
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Re: Meat

Post by Horus »

I have said before that I have no problem with anyone else’s religion, I abhor them all equally. I have no need to believe in a sky fairy or any of his minions or so called prophets, to praise his name or to submit myself to him/she/it and least of all to adhere to some backward rituals in order to live or be happy in my life, I do not need a crutch or someone else to blame. Therefore I strongly object to being forced to become part of that sort of chicanery either directly or indirectly. :td
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Re: Meat

Post by Mad Dilys »

That's only fair, Horus. :up
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Re: Meat

Post by Horus »

Mad Dilys wrote:That's only fair, Horus. :up
As I said "live and let live" just so long as it does not impinge upon my life in any way or imposes other peoples rules on me. ;)
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Re: Meat

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Personally I don't care how an animal is killed so long as it is fast and they don't suffer. I don't like to see animals transported in a crush and held in an unfamiliar place but looking at it practically I think lots of animal care is driven by economics and many small farmers don't have the available cash to cater to their animals emotional needs particularly the larger domestic ones. Probably hard enough to just have to turn over a favourite animal to a slaughter house.

Stunning and animals then capable of feeling.......hmm.....we don't know after an animal is stunned if they can feel or not. If they are stunned and then dispatched quickly thereafter I'm ok with that.

If I had my druthers I'd rather eat fish (wild salmon) every day. Next I'd prefer to eat my own home raised and slaughtered chicken or turkey. I like both equally. Same with beef and pork - I like lean meat that isn't full of antibiotics. I don't eat meat every day because I think it is healthier not to. Don't often eat beef anymore either.

When I was young we'd spilt a year old cow with my dad's older sisters family, we raised and killed our own chicken and rabbits and 'yeah I've skinned rabbits, plucked chickens and ducks and cleaned more fish than I care to remember.' I quite love goat meat but it isn't at all popular here but I do not like lamb.

In one of the stores here there is now a "halal" section. I'm not sure if there are symbols on the rest of our food here but I do agree that all the big manufacturers are trying to appease everybody. Mostly I'm not thinking about it - thinking about the entire halal issue. It is one of those "I can't do anything about it anyway" so I'm not even thinking about it.
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Re: Meat

Post by Mad Dilys »

Absolutely with you LLL!

Sending my favourite Charolaise Heifer to be slaughtered was bad enough as I didn't want to be the one to put her into the trailer. However I was forced to as she wouldn't co-operate with anyone else. I didn't want her to go, I wanted to breed from her but farm finances meant needs must when the Devil drives.

I sold three quarters fresh and put one hind quarter in the big deepfreeze in the dairy................. Some time later my accident prone husband wanted an extension lead and "borrowed" it from the deep freeze. About a week later I went to get some meat and found everything melted. :o

As he was busy being a Vet it fell to me to dispose of the contents of the freezer, clean it and put it back into use - as if I had time to spare. There were no dramatics over this, just a few tears in private.

What did I get from 18 months of care and feeding this lovely animal? A large financial loss, heartbreak and a bigger gap between me and the Vet. :(

From the time they went to school my daughters decided that they would only eat meat we produced, so they have been completely vegan for many years. It wasn't at my behest and they enjoyed a steak, often asking which animal it was and sometimes commenting that at least it had a happy life. :up
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Re: Meat

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

There are many many things that happen in the animal realm that I wish didn't happen and that I do find highly disturbing but I just don't have the oomph or maybe motivation to do anything to change it unless it is extremely agregious. I'd love change but just can't take up the gauntlet anymore for each and every cause.

I also hope I'm a bit pragmatic - whilst I don't believe animals should be slaughtered willy nilly I DO wear leather shoes and have a leather purse. IF testing a new drug on an animal would ultimately save the lives of thousands then I'm ok with testing on an animal. Do what has to be done in the most caring humane hygienic manner possible, don't do anything frivolous, don't cause excessive pain but if that is what it takes to ensure the greater good I'm ok with it. If an animal has an excessive disability I would personally put the animal down vs see it drag itself about and around hooked up to a wheelchair type arrangement or some such. Don't keep killer whales in a small pool, don't house animals in concrete zoos. I do believe we have a responsibility to provide safe, clean, well nourished, stimulating environments and I'm also making the assumption that love from an owner to a pet is just natural (and if that isn't there I'd hope the pet owner would be relinquishing fast)

I do believe animals have rights but sometimes the animal do gooders go way over, above and beyond IMO to an extreme that isn't really right.
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Re: Meat

Post by Mad Dilys »

I do so agree with you. As a Vet nurse I saw things that people didn't believe, but now Satellite TV animal programmes show that it isn't just the underdeveloped countries who have citizens treating animals in an appalling way. I would include the fashion of breeding dogs with deformed muzzles, bodies legs and temperament :x My biggest hobbyhorse at the moment.

I love the TV programme The Supervet about the amazing Dr Noel Fitzpatrick and his drive for medical discovery. He is great at publicising what he is trying to achieve which makes him a traget for people who just read headlines. His very expensive treatments are mostly funded by Insurance that the owners have taken out though he treats Wildlife free of charge.

His concept of the Humanimal Trust I think is brilliant. to quote from their website:


Our values underpin how we will go about our work and reflect what people see and feel about The Humanimal Trust.

Our core standards.
CARE – Clear in our vision, determined to succeed, we care passionately about what we do.
BALANCE – We take a pragmatic approach, compassionate hearts with rational minds.
INTEGRITY – Strong principles, morals and ethics, we always endeavour to do the right thing.
TRUST – We say what we do and do what we say. Duty of care and social responsibility.

Sounds good to me. :up
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