This may not have reached LLL's media, or maybe it has. Following hot on the heels of the Harvey Weinstein revelations of claimed sexual predation and abuse, we now have many women AND men from political circles claiming that they have been sexually harassed or even abused by politicians. Some of these refer to incidents that they claim occurred many years ago. It is becoming the usual bandwaggon where a few come forward following the Weinstein stories and these numbers grow as other individuals remember some incident from long ago and make it public by the media, social media, or the political 'Whips'.
In these situations I always pose the question, 'If it did not offend you enough to make a complaint at the time, why make one now'? I know that some DID refer the matter to the Whips office but no action was taken. Many did nothing until now when it is one persons word against another. It has already cost our Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, his senior post in the Government; and yesterday Charlie Elficke the MP for Dover was suspended from the Conservative party for some undefined behavior in the past. In his case the 'media' were advised of his suspension by Number 10 BEFORE he had been told himself.
There seems to be a lot of scrambling around to make amends for any failures in the past to deal with such incidents and no doubt many more politicians from all parties are not sitting comfortably for fear that some young researcher or activist that he gave a little cuddle 20 years ago comes forward claiming sexual harassment.
I don't know what is behind Charlie Elfickes case, now referred to the police, but I did think that the other day he made a very pertinent comment when he said 'If you want Monks and Nuns, then vote for Monks and Nuns'.
In my experience there has always been banter between the sexes in the workplace. If it went a little further than banter and could cause offence, the female, or male, at the receiving end could either respond willingly OR show their rejection by either a sharp rebuke or even a slap in the face. But that would be the end of it.
I believe that the way PC has gone over recent decades, I ask myself, will men generally even want to work in the same environment as women when for the slightest stepping out of line, they could lose their job or worse, face prosecution. Where has all the innocent fun and banter gone out of life?
Will men avoid working in mixed environments in the future
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- Grandad
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Re: Will men avoid working in mixed environments in the futu
Hear, hear, the whole think is becomming a witch hunt
- LovelyLadyLux
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Re: Will men avoid working in mixed environments in the futu
I haven't heard anything about your people in Politics speaking up about past molestations.
PAST molestations & harassment with the operative word being "PAST." How to deal with that. Who knows as what do you do in hindsight when at best it is a 'he said/she said' situation. It is impossible to disprove a negative however that being said IF the injured party is able to give consistent specific details and descriptions I know their disclosure will be taken as fact.
I fully understand if you're real young or a 13/14/15/16 yr old female and fall prey to some old letch that you might not report it - embarrassment, fear, coercion, whatever but IMO if you're a fully employed adult female (or male) in a responsible job and you're touched, molested or again 'whatever' you'd better SPEAK UP or 'forever keep your peace.' I dont' know about private enterprise but I do know that in Gov't I'm more than positive there are mechanisms to deal with unwanted attention and more.
Mostly I'm specifically referencing the actresses/actors now coming out against Weinstein/Spacey and all the others who are still in the wings waiting for their victims to disclose in that I always have to wonder why so much after the fact you start to speak. Unfortunately the after the fact crew always unfortunately leave their disclosure(s) open to non-belief because they ARE so far after the event actually happened.
Granted it would be really hard to take on a mega millionaire who can make or break your career but I can't help but say it "Didn't you know?" Didn't you know IF you got into this guys car and went with him no matter how exciting, flattering, whatever that it COULD / MIGHT end real bad for YOU?
I find it really hard to believe that if having sex willy nilly with everybody all the time is happening 24/7 in Hollywood and/or with the TV Media crowd that you didn't know about it being you're part of it..........HOW do you escape not hearing what is going on? HOW do you figure YOU would be exempt if you got into their clutches?
Does kinda make me think a couple of things (right or wrong I do think this) #1 You FULLY knew what you were getting yourself into and you rolled the dice to advance your own personal career. You were willing to do whatever it took to get the PERSON on top to notice you and help you. #2 You were pretty naïve to the entire scene and got sucked in over your head BUT when you realized it you went along recognizing & accepting the perks and didn't speak cause you wanted what it got you. #3 You realized what was happening, said nothing and so became complicit in the matter.
Today in this PC world you can't banter at all. PC is killing natural human reactions and interactions.
IF the investigators are good they'll be requiring lots of extremely detailed and irrefutable detailed information. You can get 'em (the bad guys) but IMO some who make disclosures well after the fact seem to be only wanting to throw in their name again for the notoriety of doing so gets them. The real victims will hopefully get their day in court and will get justice but, sadly I do have to wonder how many are truly 'victims' vs those who did 'go along' at the time so as to aid their careers.....(just can't help but think that)
PAST molestations & harassment with the operative word being "PAST." How to deal with that. Who knows as what do you do in hindsight when at best it is a 'he said/she said' situation. It is impossible to disprove a negative however that being said IF the injured party is able to give consistent specific details and descriptions I know their disclosure will be taken as fact.
I fully understand if you're real young or a 13/14/15/16 yr old female and fall prey to some old letch that you might not report it - embarrassment, fear, coercion, whatever but IMO if you're a fully employed adult female (or male) in a responsible job and you're touched, molested or again 'whatever' you'd better SPEAK UP or 'forever keep your peace.' I dont' know about private enterprise but I do know that in Gov't I'm more than positive there are mechanisms to deal with unwanted attention and more.
Mostly I'm specifically referencing the actresses/actors now coming out against Weinstein/Spacey and all the others who are still in the wings waiting for their victims to disclose in that I always have to wonder why so much after the fact you start to speak. Unfortunately the after the fact crew always unfortunately leave their disclosure(s) open to non-belief because they ARE so far after the event actually happened.
Granted it would be really hard to take on a mega millionaire who can make or break your career but I can't help but say it "Didn't you know?" Didn't you know IF you got into this guys car and went with him no matter how exciting, flattering, whatever that it COULD / MIGHT end real bad for YOU?
I find it really hard to believe that if having sex willy nilly with everybody all the time is happening 24/7 in Hollywood and/or with the TV Media crowd that you didn't know about it being you're part of it..........HOW do you escape not hearing what is going on? HOW do you figure YOU would be exempt if you got into their clutches?
Does kinda make me think a couple of things (right or wrong I do think this) #1 You FULLY knew what you were getting yourself into and you rolled the dice to advance your own personal career. You were willing to do whatever it took to get the PERSON on top to notice you and help you. #2 You were pretty naïve to the entire scene and got sucked in over your head BUT when you realized it you went along recognizing & accepting the perks and didn't speak cause you wanted what it got you. #3 You realized what was happening, said nothing and so became complicit in the matter.
Today in this PC world you can't banter at all. PC is killing natural human reactions and interactions.
IF the investigators are good they'll be requiring lots of extremely detailed and irrefutable detailed information. You can get 'em (the bad guys) but IMO some who make disclosures well after the fact seem to be only wanting to throw in their name again for the notoriety of doing so gets them. The real victims will hopefully get their day in court and will get justice but, sadly I do have to wonder how many are truly 'victims' vs those who did 'go along' at the time so as to aid their careers.....(just can't help but think that)
- Grandad
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Re: Will men avoid working in mixed environments in the futu
Well said LLL. I can see that you have a real understanding of these situations, hether minor or major.
- LovelyLadyLux
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Re: Will men avoid working in mixed environments in the futu
I think as a society as we move into more complex interpersonal relations i.e. men with men, women with women we'll ultimately hear more disclosures of inappropriate sexual stuff. Can't for a second believe it is NOT happening just nobody has had the gumption to make a disclosure about it yet.
Always interesting to think on 'why' a person discloses when they do. Firmly believe everything is done for a reason.
Always interesting to think on 'why' a person discloses when they do. Firmly believe everything is done for a reason.
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Re: Will men avoid working in mixed environments in the futu
I think Witch Hunt is correct Horus. The latest seems to be some, now retired, police officer who claims that porno images were found on Damian Greens computer back in 2009. No evidence, no proven justification for his claims. Just a damning claim against another senior politician that could ruin his political career when the Whiter than White brigade get to use it. But porno images, so what, there are far worse things on the out of control Internet
Another one crawling out of the woodwork looking for his five minutes of notoriety
Another one crawling out of the woodwork looking for his five minutes of notoriety
- LovelyLadyLux
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Re: Will men avoid working in mixed environments in the futu
I think quite a few are looking for their 5 minutes in the sun or a hefty payout or payoff NOT to have their 5 minutes in the sun.
I used to really enjoy the comedy of Bill Cosby. All the characters he created and played were really cute. For years I thought of him as being a very smart man and a terrific role model for the black community. Then they started coming out of the woodwork from decades ago!
Guess there was merit to all the accusations but I don't understand the timing. Why wait years and years? Again not like we're talking kids who don't have the oomph on lots of fronts to disclose. We're talking adult women!
On another note it does seem that Hollywood is absolutely corrupt on this front. Is it the mega $$ that flow through that town that has eroded all morals and decency? Geez!
I used to really enjoy the comedy of Bill Cosby. All the characters he created and played were really cute. For years I thought of him as being a very smart man and a terrific role model for the black community. Then they started coming out of the woodwork from decades ago!
Guess there was merit to all the accusations but I don't understand the timing. Why wait years and years? Again not like we're talking kids who don't have the oomph on lots of fronts to disclose. We're talking adult women!
On another note it does seem that Hollywood is absolutely corrupt on this front. Is it the mega $$ that flow through that town that has eroded all morals and decency? Geez!
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