So the BREXIT debate begins
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- Grandad
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So the BREXIT debate begins
I listened to Teresa Mays speech yesterday outlining the Governments objectives when we leave the EU.
I thought it was a good speech with the 12 objectives clearly defined. I am happy that a Clean (Hard) Brexit is planned which will give the UK opportunities to re-establish itself in the world without the constraints of Brussels. There will be a difficult period of transition but I do believe we will be stronger in the long run.
Of course Mrs Sturgeon is using it to raise the subject of Scottish independence once again. I am not convinced that she would win another referendum on the subject if she were to call one. If she didn't win, that would see the end of her political career.
I do believe that we are in a strong bargaining position to get the best deal for the UK. We will still need our continental neighbours and they will need us particularly on trade,security and intelligence.
I thought it was a good speech with the 12 objectives clearly defined. I am happy that a Clean (Hard) Brexit is planned which will give the UK opportunities to re-establish itself in the world without the constraints of Brussels. There will be a difficult period of transition but I do believe we will be stronger in the long run.
Of course Mrs Sturgeon is using it to raise the subject of Scottish independence once again. I am not convinced that she would win another referendum on the subject if she were to call one. If she didn't win, that would see the end of her political career.
I do believe that we are in a strong bargaining position to get the best deal for the UK. We will still need our continental neighbours and they will need us particularly on trade,security and intelligence.
- Horus
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
I would wholeheartedly agree with all of that Grandad, at long last we are seeing someone tell it as it is and make our position clear. For months now I have been irked by all of these unelected EU officials telling the UK how they will punish us for our temerity in leaving this corrupt organisation. I reckon that Boris summed it up when he referred to the EU as handing out a ‘punishment beating’ to the UK, so reminiscent of an old WW2 prisoner of war film, we only have to listen to the likes of Hollond, Tusk, Junkers et al to realise that they will never willingly see us breaking even on an exit deal let alone benefiting by it. So it is about time that someone called their bluff on all this rhetoric and explained to them that we are not prepared to be their whipping boy and just take what they hand out. We are not some petty little country that can be pushed around, we are the worlds 5th largest economy and have a huge trade deficit with the EU and are the main market for French wines and agricultural products and a huge market for German made cars. Trade cuts both ways and if they want to play rough then let us also take the gloves off, we can sit on the edge of Europe and offer very attractive tax conditions to mainstream companies to set up here.
May has done a great job in making it clear that we realise that in order to stay inside the free trade area we would have to accept free movement, so by saying “and we cannot accept free movement, so our only alternative is to leave completely” is putting the ball back in their court. I believe in straight talking and by telling them the way things are and that we are not going to just accept some deal that is detrimental to us is fine by me. “We will just walk away” is the best tactic to take with the EU and I would go even further. At the moment we have one of the best economic growths in the world and certainly in the EU, the Pound rose against the Dollar and the Euro after her speech, we have a new unknown American president who has welcomed ‘Brexit’ and certain other countries wishing to trade with us.
Since our decision to leave the EU they have constantly told us “no negotiations until you implement article 50” they refused to discuss anything at all hoping to put us in a bad negotiating position. We should now do the same “there is our bottom line, come back with some decent deal or we leave in two years without one” I also think that we should ignore their rule that says you cannot negotiate trade deals whilst still in the EU club. Why should we go along with that? Who is going to stop us? We have made our position clear and should not be held to their timetable or rules, if they wont play ball then neither should we, they can hardly punish us for breaking the rules and if they tried we just don’t pay up.
As to Nichola Sturgeon, well her face was a picture when she came out of the parliament building. She now has a choice, put up or shut up, but I suspect she will just keep sulking and complaining and trying to put the mockers on the whole deal. She still doesn’t realise that in the greater scheme of things she represents a very small proportion of UK voters, her whole policy is based upon gaining Scottish independence, she will pursue that aim regardless of anything else. So I reckon that along with the surprise Brexit vote, she may be surprised that most people in the UK are not bothered either way if they stay within the union or not, you can cry wolf too often. Although on that score I fail to see why Scotland in general would want to be a minor player subjected to EU rules and not allied to its biggest trading partner just over the border. And talking of borders, does she not realise the problems that it would cause for Scotland in particular? There would have to be a ‘hard’ border with England in order to control immigration and goods from the EU and just how much trade passes through the UK mainland and its ports to reach Scotland? Personally I reckon she now has her bluff called, our position on EU membership is now clear, so over to you Nichola. I don’t believe that she will want to call another referendum unless she can be assured of a winning vote and I don’t know that those conditions are right at the moment and once we leave she will be a spent force.
May has done a great job in making it clear that we realise that in order to stay inside the free trade area we would have to accept free movement, so by saying “and we cannot accept free movement, so our only alternative is to leave completely” is putting the ball back in their court. I believe in straight talking and by telling them the way things are and that we are not going to just accept some deal that is detrimental to us is fine by me. “We will just walk away” is the best tactic to take with the EU and I would go even further. At the moment we have one of the best economic growths in the world and certainly in the EU, the Pound rose against the Dollar and the Euro after her speech, we have a new unknown American president who has welcomed ‘Brexit’ and certain other countries wishing to trade with us.
Since our decision to leave the EU they have constantly told us “no negotiations until you implement article 50” they refused to discuss anything at all hoping to put us in a bad negotiating position. We should now do the same “there is our bottom line, come back with some decent deal or we leave in two years without one” I also think that we should ignore their rule that says you cannot negotiate trade deals whilst still in the EU club. Why should we go along with that? Who is going to stop us? We have made our position clear and should not be held to their timetable or rules, if they wont play ball then neither should we, they can hardly punish us for breaking the rules and if they tried we just don’t pay up.
As to Nichola Sturgeon, well her face was a picture when she came out of the parliament building. She now has a choice, put up or shut up, but I suspect she will just keep sulking and complaining and trying to put the mockers on the whole deal. She still doesn’t realise that in the greater scheme of things she represents a very small proportion of UK voters, her whole policy is based upon gaining Scottish independence, she will pursue that aim regardless of anything else. So I reckon that along with the surprise Brexit vote, she may be surprised that most people in the UK are not bothered either way if they stay within the union or not, you can cry wolf too often. Although on that score I fail to see why Scotland in general would want to be a minor player subjected to EU rules and not allied to its biggest trading partner just over the border. And talking of borders, does she not realise the problems that it would cause for Scotland in particular? There would have to be a ‘hard’ border with England in order to control immigration and goods from the EU and just how much trade passes through the UK mainland and its ports to reach Scotland? Personally I reckon she now has her bluff called, our position on EU membership is now clear, so over to you Nichola. I don’t believe that she will want to call another referendum unless she can be assured of a winning vote and I don’t know that those conditions are right at the moment and once we leave she will be a spent force.
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
Totally agree Horus, couldn't have put it better myself.
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- Horus
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
Another very interesting event today was the arrival in London of a train carrying exports that came to us all the way from China! via Russia and Europe, over 7000 miles on what they are calling the new 'Silk Road' as the start of more trade between ourselves and China, all good news.
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
Not so sure about the trade with China, I have my reservations. Trade with China has hit the poor artisans in Egypt hard. China needs hard currency and gets it by using business methods that means few countries can challenge their prices.
Years ago the first big Chinese export was rabbit meat. They didn't often eat rabbit themselves but needed foreign currency. So foriegners bought it as a cheap protein source, much cheaper than could be produced locally, where wage structures, health and safety as well as compassion for animals came at a greater cost.
I loved the Ramadan lamps that were traditionally made in Egypt - mostly from recycled materials, by local families who worked hard to stockpile them through the year. I saw a magazine article when the first Chinese lamps were imported which predicted correctly that the imports would sound the death knell for the old craft. And it did.
So many souvenirs of Egypt are now made in China. I know wholesalers just off the Khan el Khalili who sit in little nooks (not big enough for a room) and trade by showing a limited range of goods to be delivered in large quantity at low prices. They make regular trips to China to choose stock and make very considerable profit from goods which could and in my view should be produced by Egyptian workers.
Still you can't have everything, the Chinese set up was started under Chairman Mao when the Chinese people were terribly oppressed. Nuff said.
Years ago the first big Chinese export was rabbit meat. They didn't often eat rabbit themselves but needed foreign currency. So foriegners bought it as a cheap protein source, much cheaper than could be produced locally, where wage structures, health and safety as well as compassion for animals came at a greater cost.
I loved the Ramadan lamps that were traditionally made in Egypt - mostly from recycled materials, by local families who worked hard to stockpile them through the year. I saw a magazine article when the first Chinese lamps were imported which predicted correctly that the imports would sound the death knell for the old craft. And it did.
So many souvenirs of Egypt are now made in China. I know wholesalers just off the Khan el Khalili who sit in little nooks (not big enough for a room) and trade by showing a limited range of goods to be delivered in large quantity at low prices. They make regular trips to China to choose stock and make very considerable profit from goods which could and in my view should be produced by Egyptian workers.
Still you can't have everything, the Chinese set up was started under Chairman Mao when the Chinese people were terribly oppressed. Nuff said.
Smile! It confuses people
- Horus
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
I was referring more to us having the opportunity to do some more trade with China than the other way around, after all we buy enough of their crap as it is. and we have technologies that we can export to them.
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
I'm not sure in the light of history that I even agree with that, sorry. Japan for example took technology from us in the past, and used it brilliantly to more or less cut our business legs from under us. I could give examples, but it's pretty obvious and getting late. Maybe tomorrow?
Oh goodness I sound like someone on the Blue side.
Oh goodness I sound like someone on the Blue side.
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- Horus
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
Good grief! you could never become that badOh goodness I sound like someone on the Blue side.
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
Don't tempt/dare me
If MT doesn't take it you may find a new member called either A1 or The Great North Road...............
If MT doesn't take it you may find a new member called either A1 or The Great North Road...............
Smile! It confuses people
- Horus
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
Hows about M6 or A3 or even M25Mad Dilys wrote:Don't tempt/dare me
If MT doesn't take it you may find a new member called either A1 or The Great North Road...............
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
M25 sounds good to me as it was the nearest to home.
On the other hand I am a poster, A1 is poster size paper, an arterial road and recognised as excellent!
I am tempted to become a troll and a trouble maker, we are short of one on these forums at the moment.
It might be fairer to take turns in being irritating?
Excuse me, the coffee hasn't reached my brain yet. Have a good day every one.
On the other hand I am a poster, A1 is poster size paper, an arterial road and recognised as excellent!
I am tempted to become a troll and a trouble maker, we are short of one on these forums at the moment.
It might be fairer to take turns in being irritating?
Excuse me, the coffee hasn't reached my brain yet. Have a good day every one.
Smile! It confuses people
- Horus
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Re: So the BREXIT debate begins
Oh no don't do that, it is bad enough keeping tabs on the regular ones, although I have my methodsI am tempted to become a troll and a trouble maker, we are short of one on these forums at the moment.
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