Trump or Trumpton?

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Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Grandad »

As we all took a sabatical for a few months we have not had our little discussions and personal opinions about things going on in the world.
What do you think of this Trump bloke? Is it appropriate for the next leader of, probably, the most powerful nation on earth to express his views on social media? I am not on Twitter and have no desire to join but is it statesman like to use this form of communication? I think not.
And all his brash statements about what he will do after Jan 20th? I am feeling rather uneasy about the consequences.
I really don't understand the US political set up. I assume that as President, Trump will have considerable power, not least a finger on the nuclear button BUT, is their system such that there are those who have influence over the President and does the President have to get approval of Congress for all his actions?
It will be interesting to see how he fares today when he meets the leaders of the security agencies to discuss HOW and IF Putin influenced the Presidential election, which Trump flatley denies.
Interesting times ahead methinks......


:gg:
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Donald Trump and his views disgust me so much that I heartily refuse to read or hear anything about him, Grandad! :td
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Horus »

Now I have always taken the view that the best way to deal with anyone else’s opinions and views is not to ostracise them, but rather to challenge and discuss them, that way the flaws if they exist speak for themselves. So I am happy to talk about Trump as I am any other subject, we only see what the media shows us and to be honest on first impressions he seems to have some strange ideas, but a large percentage of Americans voted for him so there must be something in what he is saying. In the same way as I get annoyed when the ‘Remain’ camp attempt to brand everyone who voted ‘Brexit’ to be either a racist or an uneducated moron who does not understand the issues, I feel a similar way about Trump. He does come across as a self serving individual with little or no grasp of politics or diplomacy, but he must be striking some chords with a lot of Americans. I know very little about ‘Obama Care’ as a policy and always thought it was something akin to our NHS, but obviously it galls a lot of American voters and they must have a valid reason beyond just denying someone else free healthcare. The same with his foreign policies say on Syria, maybe he has the right idea and if we just let the Russians get on with it they will rid us of ISIS and return Syria into a more peaceful state, lets face it the so called Arab Spring has not done much for world peace or the prosperity of that region, so maybe another approach is better, who knows.

For a long time now we have had certain dynasties running the show, the Kennedy’s, the Bush’s and had she won it would have been another Clinton in the White House, so maybe all that needs a good shake up as with our own political scene. Take his stance on Russia, we have had a lot of problems with sanctions over the Crimea racking up world tensions and for what? The Crimea is just as much a part of the Soviet Empire as any other satellite state, it was only given to the Ukraine as a gesture by Kruschev at a time when Ukraine was firmly in the Soviet camp. The West keeps on adding more and more ex-Soviet countries to its list of allies whilst making the old Soviet Empire feel vulnerable, maybe it is time we stopped interfering in their internal affairs. As to Trumps finger on the nuclear button, well he is probably not the worst person they could have, but I reckon he is suitable restrained by Congress and the Senate not to mention the military. He may not get to build his wall, but already the Ford Motor Company have changed their minds and will be building their new plant in the USA and not in Mexico, so who knows, he may just turn out OK.

I will be having a meal and a few drinks on Saturday night with an American friend of mine who is over for a few days, now I already know that he cringes when I mention Donald Trump to him, but that may be more from embarrassment when his pee taking Limey friend starts on him, but seriously I will try and find out his true opinions on the situation, from the horses mouth so to speak.
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Ruby Slippers »

You will have to give us the low-down, Horus, after your meeting. :)
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Grandad »

Horus, I believe the American people were presented with a difficult decision. On the one hand Hilary Clinton a long time politician and former Secretary of State. She could claim very little in the way of 'achievements' when she was in office but she did have international diplomatic experience. She was widely disliked by many Americans who possibly feared the Dynasty prospect and the influence of Bill.
Trump expressed many opinions during the campaign that could be classed as racist. American people who preferred Trump before Clinton were reluctant to admit this for fear of being branded 'racist', so they kept quiet. This had the effect of swaying the polls which in most cases gave Clinton the lead.
But haven't we had many examples recently where the polls have got it wrong by failing to read the views of the people correctly.
I do agree that he may well turn out to do a good job. At least he seems to have the balls to say what he thinks, I just wish he would rein back on his use of Twitter and start to look like a statesman.
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Horus »

I have long viewed America as a very strange mixture, on the one hand we have a huge powerhouse of industry and innovation and on the other a very divided society. Take law and order, many in the UK (including myself) would say that many jail terms are not long enough, whereas in America they are likely to give you a 200 year sentence and mean it, no parole and no chance of release. It is estimated that America has around 5% of the world population, but has around 20% of the worlds prison population. :o People sit on death row for 20 plus years and law suits are common as a result of a litigious society full of rich lawyers on the make. Most Americans have dental care that would make Donny Osmond jealous while some people die from lack of a standard hospital procedure that they cannot afford to pay for. It has a highly religious population, many versions that are so weird it is impossible to take them seriously, Mormons, Scientology, people who pick up snakes etc. you name it and they have it. On the surface they seem well educated with many notable people and academics and what seems to be a good educational system, then on the other hand if you listen to the views of many it is close to moronic with some bizarre beliefs and opinions being spouted. For an advanced society they fall well behind the UK for things like universal medical care and social services.
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Grandad »

It has a highly religious population
When I read this phrase from your last post Horus I was reminded of a new thread on another forum that I look in. A member from Texas headed her thread "H*** has well and truly frozen over". This is about the fact that they have had their first snow but she could not bring herself to use the common phrase in full.
I also find that most Americans are a bit short on humour and certainly don't seem to get our line of more subtle humour.
Takes all sorts I suppose. ;)
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Horus »

There is certainly a difference in humour, the good thing is my American friend has after many years of indoctrination understands it really well, so it makes insulting him a lot easier, I always refer to him as my Colonial friend and regularly point out the error of their ways and in particular how ungrateful they are for everything we have done for them in the past, mostly he just laughs and agrees. :D
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I think Obama was the worst and most divisive President the USA has ever had. The 20th isn't coming fast enough. Trump conversely is the BEST thing that could have happened for the US.

Even "Newsweek Magazine" a very Liberal Magazine's closing article re: Obama says it all:

Newsweek Closed Its Doors with a Slam at Obama
 
Newsweek Is Now History.  The liberal Newsweek Magazine is going out of business, but not before it attacks the President.  This is quite an article, even more so when you consider that NEWSWEEK finally had the guts to admit it. WOW!  Newsweek COVER!!!  It is their last cover before they fold.  Also read the article at the end. AMAZING!!!
 
Finally, Matt Patterson and Newsweek speak out about Obama.  This is timely and tough.  As many of you know, Newsweek has a reputation for being extremely liberal.  The fact that their editor saw fit to print the following article about Obama and the one that appears in the latest Newsweek, makes this a truly amazing event, and a news story in and of itself.  At last, the truth about our President and his Agenda are starting to trickle through the protective wall built around him by the liberal media...
 

By Matt Patterson
(Newsweek Columnist -- Opinion Writer)
 
Years from now, historians may regard the 2008 election of Barack Obama as an inscrutable and phenomenon, the result of a baffling breed of mass hysteria akin perhaps to the witch craze of the Middle Ages.  How, they will wonder, did a man so devoid of professional accomplishment beguile so many into thinking he could manage the world's largest economy, direct the world's most powerful military, execute the world's most consequential job?
 
Imagine a future historian examining Obama's pre-presidential life: ushered into and through the Ivy League, despite unremarkable grades and test scores along the way; a cushy non-job as a "community organizer;" a brief career as a state legislator devoid of legislative achievement (and in fact nearly devoid of his attention, less often did he vote "present"); and finally an unaccomplished single term in the United States Senate, the entirety of which was devoted to his presidential ambitions.
 
He left no academic legacy in academia, authored no signature legislation as a legislator.  And then there is the matter of his troubling associations: the white-hating, America-loathing preacher who for decades served as Obama's "spiritual mentor;" a real-life, actual terrorist who served as Obama's colleague and political sponsor.  It is easy to imagine a future historian looking at it all and asking: how on Earth was such a man elected president?  There is no evidence that he ever attended or worked for any university or that he ever sat for the Illinois bar.  We have no documentation for any of his claims.  He may well be the greatest hoax in history.Not content to wait for history, the incomparable Norman Podhoretz addressed the question recently in the Wall Street Journal: To be sure, no white candidate who had close associations with an outspoken hater of America like Jeremiah Wright and an unrepentant terrorist like Bill Ayers, would have lasted a single day. 
 
But because Mr.  Obama was black, and therefore entitled in the eyes of liberal Dom to have hung out with protesters against various American injustices, even if they were 'a bit' extreme, he was given a pass.  Let that Sink in: Obama was given a pass - held to a lower standard because of the color of his skin.  Podhoretz continues: And in any case, what did such ancient history matter when he was also so articulate and elegant and (as he himself had said) "non-threatening," all of which gave him a fighting chance to become the first black president and thereby to lay the curse of racism to rest? Podhoretz puts his finger, I think, on the animating pulse of the Obama phenomenon - affirmative action.  Not in the legal sense, of course.  But certainly in the motivating sentiment behind all affirmative action laws and regulations, which are designed primarily to make white people, and especially white liberals, feel good about themselves.  Unfortunately, minorities often suffer so that whites can pat themselves on the back.
 
Liberals routinely admit minorities to schools for which they are not qualified, yet take no responsibility for the inevitable poor performance and high drop-out rates which follow.  Liberals don't care if these minority students fail; liberals aren't around to witness the emotional devastation and deflated self-esteem resulting from the racist policy that is affirmative action.  Yes, racist.  Holding someone to a separate standard merely because of the color of his skin - that's affirmative action in a nutshell, and if that isn't racism, then nothing is.  And that is what America did to Obama.  True, Obama himself was never troubled by his lack of achievements, but why would he be?  As many have noted, Obama was told he was good enough for Columbia despite undistinguished grades at Occidental; he was told he was good enough for the US Senate despite a mediocre record in Illinois ; he was told he was good enough to be president despite no record at all in the Senate.  All his life, every step of the way, Obama was told he was good enough for the next step, in spite of ample evidence to the contrary.
 
What could this breed if not the sort of empty narcissism on display every time Obama speaks?  In 2008, many who agreed that he lacked executive qualifications nonetheless raved about Obama's oratory skills, intellect, and cool character.  Those people - conservatives included - ought now to be deeply embarrassed.  The man thinks and speaks in the hoariest of cliches, and that's when he has his Teleprompters in front of him; when the prompter is absent he can barely think or speak at all.  Not one original idea has ever issued from his mouth - it's all warmed-over Marxism of the kind that has failed over and over again for 100 years.  (An example is his 2012 campaign speeches which are almost word for word his 2008 speeches)
 
And what about his character?  Obama is constantly blaming anything and everything else for his troubles.  Bush did it; it was bad luck; I inherited this mess. Remember, he wanted the job, campaigned for the task.  It is embarrassing to see a president so willing to advertise his own powerless-ness, so comfortable with his own incompetence.  (The other day he actually came out and said no one could have done anything to get our economy and country back on track).  But really, what were we to expect?  The man has never been responsible for anything, so how do we expect him to act responsibly?
 
In short: our president is a small-minded man, with neither the temperament nor the intellect to handle his job.  When you understand that, and only when you understand that, will the current erosion of liberty and prosperity make sense.  It could not have gone otherwise with such an impostor in the Oval Office.
 
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Horus »

No holds barred in that article then :lol:
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Mad Dilys »

I think that Mr Trump is the unfortunate product of a surge in the mass media over the last 50 or so years. I am fascinated by him and follow his progress with great interest.

Many people believe what they hear or see, in the media without using a sense of judgement at all. In my opinion the Trump circus is headed by a chap who knows how to use this for his own amusement simply because he can, and why can he?

He is almost impervious to criticism because he just doesn't care what anyone else thinks about what he does, he is so totally self centred, so he plays with the world. It amuses him to lay trails of red herrings to divert people from the main argument. He makes preposterous suggestions like building the wall between Mexico and America and making the Mexicans pay for it. Then moves on while his audience is still unable to digest the full import of his statements.

He speaks like a dictator, without the recognition of the possibility of teamwork. He has been brought up with sufficient resources to ensure if a problem occurs in his life he employs some one else to fix it. Everything he says and does is for his own personal gratification. He lives in his own fantasy where there is his version of the truth, which may vary from day to day, he really doesn't care about honesty, respect or the results of his actions on the life of other people.

Yet so many people who have not had the privilege of his background look on him as a man with "balls" mesmerised by his performance and unable to recognise that he actually acts without morals simply for his own amusement.

I am equally fascinated by the gullibility of his audience as his performance. Great stuff! :up
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Horus »

There is a lot of truth in your analysis MD ;)
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Grandad »

Horus:
For a long time now we have had certain dynasties running the show, the Kennedy’s, the Bush’s and had she won it would have been another Clinton in the White House, so maybe all that needs a good shake up as with our own political scene.
I have just learned that Boris is on his way to New York to have discussions with Donald Trumps son in law. I also understand that other members of his family have been on his transition team.....Sounds like the start of another Dynasty to me :(
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Mad Dilys »

:tk Hmm I think that most, but not all dynasties are founded on the principle of know your enemy and keep him close maybe? Rather than I am so proud of my relatives and trust them more than anyone, so I want to share my success with them.

Again and again in history "Palace" revolutions are the norm. Even if the revolt isn't led by a family member it is so often someone very close to the leader.

I believe that the people who are best suited to be leaders very, very seldom are prepared to take the responsibility. That power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and that as every person and their reactions to different situations must be different, then perhaps the only person you can trust is yourself.................... and even then remember that all of us can act out of character or make mistakes.

Life is pretty random isn't it? 8)
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Grandad »

Yes MD, I have probably misinterpreted the word 'Dynasty' and thought of it more as family than family succession.
Your point about 'power' rings true particularly for recent middle east dictators. They mixed easily with other world leaders but left their dirty work to others including family members. But would the political set up in the US allow Trump to become anything like a dictator, probably not.
However he does seem to open his mouth before his brain is in gear. :(
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Mad Dilys »

I thought dilettante described Trump's attitude to politics in particular and life in general, so I checked good old Google.

noun, plural dilettantes, dilettanti
[dil-i-tahn-tee] (Show IPA)

1. A person who takes up an art, activity, or subject merely for amusement, especially in a desultory or superficial way; dabbler.


Sounds about right to me. :up
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Grandad »

Mad Dilys wrote:I thought dilettante described Trump's attitude to politics
1. A person who takes up an art, activity, or subject merely for amusement, especially in a desultory or superficial way; dabbler.[/b]
Sounds about right to me. :up
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Horus »

Well I did go out with my American friend, but last night instead of Saturday as he had broken his journey to take in a musical in London. We had our usual banter over our meal and from what he tells me Trumps elecetion was very much along our Brexit lines with people voting for a change and just about any alternative would do. I did joke with him about Trump getting the nuclear launch codes in another 10 days or so but he said that there was a contingency plan in place should he attempt to use them. “How will that work?” I asked him, “Is there some high ranking military commander with a gun ready to shoot him if he tries to use them?” “Oh no much simpler than that” he replied. “We just divert his attention for a few seconds and someone else presses the ‘Caps Lock’ key on the keyboard, that should stop him” :D
Says it all really ……… :lol: :lol:
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Mad Dilys »

"As Trump shakes them up with Tweets, Democrats are flummoxed" is a headline in The Washington Post this morning. There follows an interesting article about Trump's Twittering versus the media coverage by conventional politicians in Washington.

Apparently they find it impossible to attract anywhere near the audience for their views that Trump can. There's a surprise. ;)


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 077ca1dba5
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Re: Trump or Trumpton?

Post by Grandad »

The power of social media eh MD :lol: :lol:

Here is an image of some of his 'Twitterers' or should that be 'Twits'? :lol:
8010

And I credit this to LLL ;)
:gg:
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