The UK government will tomorrow soend the whole day on the debate on whether or not to extend our air attacks from Iraq into Syria. Cameron now believes he has sufficient support to win the motion now that the opposition will have a free vote. Corbyn failed to win support for his persanal view that it will be futile.
I have been giving this some serious thought over recent days and, although until now I have been all for bombing IS, I am tending to think that as IS is so embedded there would be an unacceptable civilian death toll. I believe that we should go in but any operation should be aimed at cutting of their supply lines and sale of oil to finance their activities. Also, I have doubts whether the end game has been well thought through. Do we then go after Assad or do we change our views and join with Russia in supporting him?
Recent history has shown that middle eastern countries are better off with a dictator. Without him Syria could slide and become another Libya. Any views?????
Lets bomb the s**t out of ISIS
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Re: Lets bomb the s**t out of ISIS
I'm all for dictators in the Middle East, it seems to be the only thing they understand. I still reckon we have to deal the "Infantry of Satan" (IS) a fatal blow, but quite how we go about it is up in the air, (no pun intended) the easiest option would be to back Assad and let him sort them out.
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Re: Lets bomb the s**t out of ISIS
I think and I've thought about this too and while I don't have really definitive answers I'll share what I've been thinking
1) we have not thought about the final outcome or end game. I don't believe we really really really definitively knew going in WHO exactly the bad guy was. I'm of a mind to say "leave Assad alone" to govern his country and actually support him in regaining control - BUT - HE as in Assad regains control and WE COME HOME (not like when we got Hussein out of Iraq)
2) Where do we really withdraw? (i.e. IMO after the USA got Saddam they should have withdrawn asap NOT hung about trying to 'fix' the country) It is an ARAB problem and 'we' (us in the west) continuously pony up big bucks/$$$ at our own expense whilst the other Arab countries sit on the sidelines screaming "Death to America" (Do they actually shout - Death to the UK?) And we haven't really figured this out yet
3) If we bomb the life out of them/ISIS there would be a high civilian death rate - so - do we give notice we are going to do this? Give evacuation time and then go in an lay level? Good idea? I dunno......but think about it.
4) At this time President Obama has REFUSED to allow US Airpower to strike the oil trucks because of the effect this will have on the environment. He is still refusing to state ISIS is a problem and this is actually empowering ISIS/Da'esh to continue - in other words - the USA isn't really doing what it needs to do to stop this blight on humanity due to the ineffectiveness of the current President.
5) Refugees and the outcome - One of the candidates putting his name forward to be the next President of the USA is Dr. Ben Carson (retired neurosurgeon). He has been criticized here for his lack of knowledge on foreign policy so to augment this he actually just took himself to the Syrian refugee camps. He has come back saying he has talked to many refugees and MOST of them are indicating they "want to RETURN TO SYRIA!" He has said the conditions in the camps are not that bad, people are coping and overall they're indicating they don't want to be relocated about the world. They want to return to their home, to Syria. This has significantly re-affirmed my own opinion that we should NOT be moving these people all over the place AND it has reaffirmed that the hordes of young men are nothing other than economic migrants and need to be returned to Syria - OR - they are brought in, put into military camps, trained into military units and then returned to their home country to fight for it!!!! VS us housing them and giving them welfare.
6) My last opinion is that WE need to make some hard decisions. Really hard that will probably go against that which we consider humanitarian by our standards. I think we need to make decisions that will get this entire Da'esh matter over and done with once and for all and hunt them to the ends of the earth like the scum they are. THEN I think we need to get ourselves OUT OF the MIDDLE EAST and allow those countries to be governed by their own. IF that means they are NOT democratic - oh well - we need to shrug it off and live our own lives.
1) we have not thought about the final outcome or end game. I don't believe we really really really definitively knew going in WHO exactly the bad guy was. I'm of a mind to say "leave Assad alone" to govern his country and actually support him in regaining control - BUT - HE as in Assad regains control and WE COME HOME (not like when we got Hussein out of Iraq)
2) Where do we really withdraw? (i.e. IMO after the USA got Saddam they should have withdrawn asap NOT hung about trying to 'fix' the country) It is an ARAB problem and 'we' (us in the west) continuously pony up big bucks/$$$ at our own expense whilst the other Arab countries sit on the sidelines screaming "Death to America" (Do they actually shout - Death to the UK?) And we haven't really figured this out yet
3) If we bomb the life out of them/ISIS there would be a high civilian death rate - so - do we give notice we are going to do this? Give evacuation time and then go in an lay level? Good idea? I dunno......but think about it.
4) At this time President Obama has REFUSED to allow US Airpower to strike the oil trucks because of the effect this will have on the environment. He is still refusing to state ISIS is a problem and this is actually empowering ISIS/Da'esh to continue - in other words - the USA isn't really doing what it needs to do to stop this blight on humanity due to the ineffectiveness of the current President.
5) Refugees and the outcome - One of the candidates putting his name forward to be the next President of the USA is Dr. Ben Carson (retired neurosurgeon). He has been criticized here for his lack of knowledge on foreign policy so to augment this he actually just took himself to the Syrian refugee camps. He has come back saying he has talked to many refugees and MOST of them are indicating they "want to RETURN TO SYRIA!" He has said the conditions in the camps are not that bad, people are coping and overall they're indicating they don't want to be relocated about the world. They want to return to their home, to Syria. This has significantly re-affirmed my own opinion that we should NOT be moving these people all over the place AND it has reaffirmed that the hordes of young men are nothing other than economic migrants and need to be returned to Syria - OR - they are brought in, put into military camps, trained into military units and then returned to their home country to fight for it!!!! VS us housing them and giving them welfare.
6) My last opinion is that WE need to make some hard decisions. Really hard that will probably go against that which we consider humanitarian by our standards. I think we need to make decisions that will get this entire Da'esh matter over and done with once and for all and hunt them to the ends of the earth like the scum they are. THEN I think we need to get ourselves OUT OF the MIDDLE EAST and allow those countries to be governed by their own. IF that means they are NOT democratic - oh well - we need to shrug it off and live our own lives.
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