Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

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LovelyLadyLux
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Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I don't like reading cut and pastes myself but thought this an interesting one the essense of which is that Hassan Rouhani is on a tour of Italy and France drumming up trade during which time he'll tour the different historic sites. In order not to offend him the nude statues have been covered up?

REALLY??

Wine wasn't served either and I guess I can see if you know somebody doesn't drink you don't serve them alcohol as tea/coffee will do but on another note WINE is rather a national drink in Italy and France.

I guess I can't get beyond 'what are we/they thinking?'

Should we really do this? I get it that when dignitaries from other countries visit we try and accommodate them but to go to the extent of covering up historic statues? AND to worry that the genitalia of a horse might offend albeit the statue of a horse? I mean The Iranian President has to go TO a museum to see the nude statues so if this if offensive to him WHY is he going? Why not just conduct all business in a gov't building. Not like there are usually nudes in the gov't offices.

How this translates to me is that we care so little of our own culture we are no longer willing to extol the virtues of the accomplishments of our own historic artists. I actually DO feel offended that these works of art were covered up.


Anger in Italy after authorities cover up nude Roman statues of goddesses so as not to offend Iranian president

Hassan Rouhani is on a tour of Italy and France to drum up trade and diplomatic links after his country signed historic deal to limit its nuclear ambitions

26 Jan 2016

Italy covered up marble statues of nude Roman goddesses in order to spare the blushes of the visiting president of Iran, who is on a visit to Europe to rebuild relations with the West after the recent deal on restricting its nuclear ambitions lifted years of economic sanctions.


With Italian businesses signing deals worth around 17 billion euros with Iranian companies, much was at stake and Rome was anxious not to offend the sensibilities of Hassan Rouhani.

But the decision to encase the statues of Venus and other female figures from antiquity prompted outrage from some commentators and politicians.

The act of self-censorship took place at the Capitoline Museums, one of Rome’s richest repositories of classical art, which the president visited with Matteo Renzi, the prime minister.

The offending statues lined a corridor along which the Iranian delegation passed before holding a press conference.

President Rouhani with Pope Francis at the Vatican

The president’s aides were also reportedly anxious that he not be photographed too close to a giant bronze statue of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius on horseback.

The Iranians objected to what one Italian newspaper delicately described as “the attributes” or genitalia of the huge horse, which dates from the second century AD.

At the function, wine was not served – again in deference to Iranian sensibilities.

“Italy bowing down to the Iranians like this is embarrassing,” said Daniele Capezzone, a centre-Right MP and a former spokesman for Silvio Berlusconi’s party, Forza Italia.

Covering up the statues added “a touch of the ridiculous” to the state visit, he said.

“Is Italy reduced to this? And to not serve wine, again so as not to ‘offend’?” he asked.

Protests against the visit took place in Rome's Pantheon Square

Giorgia Meloni, the head of the centre-Right political party Fratelli d’Italia, joked about what the centre-Left government of Matteo Renzi might be planning for the next visit of a prominent Muslim leader, the emir of Qatar, who will arrive in Rome on Wednesday/today.

“We have to ask ourselves what Renzi has in mind for the arrival this week of the Emir of Qatar – covering St Peter’s in an enormous box?” she wrote on her Facebook page.

“The level of cultural subjection by Renzi and the Left has surpassed the limits of decency.”

Fabio Rampelli, an MP in the same party, said: “The decision to hide the statues offends Western culture. It is shameful and needs to be explained by the minister for cultural heritage.”

Vittorio Sgarbi, an art critic and well-known TV personality, said only “ignorant goats” would have decided to hide the statues away.

“I don’t think President Rouhani would have been surprised to find there were nude statues in Rome,” he said.

Luca Squeri, from Forza Italia, another centre-Right party, called the move “overly zealous”.

He added: “Respect for others cultures should not mean denying our own. This is not respect, it’s submission.”

Giuseppe Musmarra, a political analyst, said: “Was there really a need for this humiliation?”

In an editorial for the Italian edition of the Huffington Post, he wrote: “Covering up the statues in the Capitoline Museum is to symbolically renounce our art and our culture and to abdicate every principle of secularism. It is the capitulation of a country. One can dialogue, and one must, but it needs to be done with dignity.”

The French have been less accommodating, at least on the issue of serving wine.

President Rouhani walks with the pontiff

After the Italy leg of his tour, president Rouhani will fly to Paris.

During planning for the trip in November, the Iranians asked that wine not be served at the Elysee Palace.

The request was reportedly rejected by French officials, who viewed the whole stand-off as “ridiculous”, according to Le Monde.

President Rouhani is in Rome along with a 120-strong delegation of Iranian ministers and business leaders.

On Tuesday he had a 40-minute meeting with Pope Francis at the Vatican, in which he asked the Argentinean pontiff to pray for him.

Francis thanked him for visiting the Vatican and added: "I hope for peace."

The pair spoke about the recent nuclear accord, Iran’s role in the Middle East and the prospects for a peace deal in Syria.

Before arriving at the Vatican, President Rouhani told a forum of Italian business leaders that "Iran is the safest and most stable country of the entire region."


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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Mad Dilys »

Just nuts.

Of course on the other hand it does a great job for Italian/Iranian understanding - not.

It's hard to imagine that anyone organising this event could be naturally so perverse.

Bring on the underhand plot to discredit Muslims Theory - give me strength. :urm:
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Robbo70 »

God forbid they should give him an option to admire historical sculptures or accept he is in a different country with a different culture. Unless his aides specifically said he cannot have dinner in an environment where there is alcohol, why do it. I am fairly sure, had his aides said this, it would have been an even tastier story for the press, but it isnt.

These stories keep popping up about people changing their ways or habits so that the muslims are not offended, but more often than not, the muslims dont actually give a toss. I am still trying to find one offended by christmas decorations at christmas, in a christian country, but they appear to be a rare find.
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Horus »

I agree with MD & Robbo, it all seems a bit bizarre to say the least and I am sure that most Muslims would not be offended, so that being the case, then just carry on as normal and completely ignore the few religious or dogmatic idiots that do actually complain about it as very few people if any will be offended.
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Mad Dilys »

Religious?

:urm: Well they say that one man's superstition is another man's religion, don't they.

I used to read The Daily Mail for my sins. I started because when the broadsheets started to be fazed out, the big selling point of the Mail was that it didn't leave your hands grubby from the ink.

The Mail is now a totally bizarre rag, even worse online. The Kadashians, :sk the price famous people ( and sometimes the hoi polloi) pay for their houses, and all kinds of Religious S**t stirring it can find. At least Catholic Priests and Scout leaders are getting a rest. Ugh!

I changed to he Washington Post online, very informative regarding world affairs, very balanced so far as I can see and most of all Real Journalists writing for Real People, not Morons.

Speaking with my religious hat on, Muslims get a fair crack of the whip as do all the rest without being falsely PC. Very refreshing and full of food for thought.

PS Maybe Trump doesn't get a fair hearing as they obviously think he's an idiot and go out of their way to prove it with his own words. ;)
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Horus »

The Daily Mail used to be a half decent newspaper, but as you say it has gone to the dogs and has more BS made up stories about Muslims and Islam than you can shake a stick at, I stopped reading it many years ago.
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Robbo70 »

Just so we are clear... should I meet an offended muslim who wants to live under sharia law and make the UK into something more akin to the sh1thole they left behind, I would have no qualms about suggesting they go forth etc.
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I know of no Muslim(s) who would be offended by walking through any of the great halls of Europe, seeing the statues (Horse genitalia included!) and none who have ever made an overt claim to be offended by alcohol -- with the exception of 1 lone Muslima who worked as a Flight Attendant for one of the US Airlines and suddenly found it against her faith to have to SERVE alcohol to passengers as she had done for umpteen years. Was on the News here and a big to do was made of it but it came across more as a Muslima suddenly thinking she has a niche market to sue the Airline that OBVIOUSLY was forcing her to do something against her faith and this, of course, traumatized her. Dunno what happened to this story but she had her moment in the sun and then it all just faded. Apparently she'd never heard of "reasonable accommodation" and so now it possibly pushing a broom in the terminal instead of flying the friendly skies.

I honestly think the problem is OURS when I read news clips like this that somebody ran around and covered up all the statues. Pool old Iranian President must've thought he was coming into a building that was being prepped to be painted! Totally crazy and it creates stereotypes and unrealistic expectations.

Scratch my head and wonder what is WRONG with US!
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Mad Dilys »

With respect LLL don't think that there is much wrong with US - we aren't usually so stupid.

Want any help Robbo? 8)
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Horus »

I think that we all agree that regardless of where else we are in the world when we travel we are in someone else’s country and culture, so it is a case of “when in Rome” and if living there full time then we should do our best to assimilate with those around us, not necessarily adopting all the customs at the expense of your own, but at least not making waves and demands.
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

@MD - I was referencing the global "WE" of everybody that IS that stupid (to be covering up statues) ;) Meant NO implication that "we" (as in you/me/Robbo/Jayway/Horus/Grandad/Kiya etc) are that silly ..... AND ;) knowing ME I wouldn't have the energy to run about throwing sheets on anything anyway (although it looks like the covers they used were specifically handmade for the occasion ;) OR would that be NON-occasion since nothing was seen ;)
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Mad Dilys »

My comment was very tongue in cheek LLL and I love your reply in the same vein. :lol:

Speaking for myself as one of "US" though, I am capable of actions of unexplainable idiocy from time to time. :oops:
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Me too. My mind can leap the tallest buildings in a single bound and my tongue has been known to make the proverbial Tower of BaBBLE look like a mole hill AND I can do it all in a flash too! :;
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Robbo70 »

Just as an aside.... my cousin spent many years working for the foreign office and one of her postings was Rome. The working day was set out slightly different from UK offices and while the schedule and times etc were given to her, along with a list of Do's and Don'ts, she smiled and said... well thats no problem.. when in Rome... at which point all the Italians looked at her blankly and said 'when in Rome what?' None of them had ever heard the expression and thought it was quite comical, especially sinse they are no longer romans but italians, so it didnt even make sense :lol:
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Horus »

I suppose they are unlikely to understand it because it would not have applied to them when it was first spoken by St. Ambrose, way back in 387 A.D.
As the story goes, when St. Augustine arrived in Milan to assume his role as Professor of Rhetoric for the Imperial Court, he observed that the Church did not fast on Saturdays as it did in Rome.
Confused, Agostino consulted with the wiser and older Ambrogio (Ambrose), then the Bishop of Milan, who replied: “When I am at Rome, I fast on Saturday; when I am at Milan I do not. Follow the custom of the Church where you are.”
In 1621, British author Robert Burton, in his classic writing Anatomy of Melancholy, edited St. Ambrose’s remark to read: “When they are at Rome, they do there as they see done.”
Down through the years, Burton’s turn of the St. Ambrose quote was further edited, anonymously, into what is widely repeated today on a daily basis by some traveller, somewhere, trying to adjust to his/her new or temporary surroundings.
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Mad Dilys »

Thanks Horus, I had always thought it started with "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" :up
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Horus »

MD, I think that the “Render unto Caesar” quote attributed to Jesus when he was asked by the Pharisee priest if the Jews should pay taxes to Rome, is accepted as more of a reference to giving someone something that they are entitled to however unpalatable that may be, rather than adopting the customs and practices of another culture as per the “When in Rome” quote.
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Mad Dilys »

Sure, Horus but close enough to confuse me! ;)
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

As I've read about and have further pondered this covering up of genitalia it goes to show the power of the $$ and the lengths to which any one or in this case any country will go to get a piece of the pie. When one comes bearing gifts (in this case billions of dollars) the powers that be will deliberately do whatever so as to grab a few $$ even if the cost is giving up their own cultural heritage.

Wonder what will happen if now that you have a few Contracts "conditions" appear for future renewal? i.e. keep the statues covered?
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Re: Covering up NUDE statues & Horse Genitalia

Post by Mad Dilys »

In my cultural heritage the Victorians put covers round the legs of the furniture......................

I work on the principle that if something is stupid, in time it will be noticed and order will be restored. ;)
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