Vote Rigging

[Horus]

We have discussed the rise in support for stronger immigration controls from the UK government and less interference from Europe effecting similar issues of our own border controls. I also predicted a huge swing to the UKIP party in the local and European elections and as I type this is looking to be a very true prediction with big swings to the UKIP party. We will not get the final overall result until after Sunday when the rest of Europe including ourselves count the results, but if exit polls are anything to go by and early results from UK local elections, then the answer will be very clear to our politicians, most people reject the ‘open door’ immigration policy of previous govenments.

What I did find interesting and to some degree supports what people are saying about mass immigration changing our society was an item on the news which said that over 100 polling stations were to have a police presence to prevent ballot rigging and intimidation at the polling stations. This is an almost unheard of situation in UK politics unless you go back several hundred years when the corrupt politician would buy the votes of a ‘rotten borough’ by getting the voters drunk. What makes this new phenomenon more unacceptable is that all the polling stations in question were all in areas with large immigrant communities, so that in itself is saying something about immigration changing our country in unacceptable ways. We in this country are used to voting for politicians that fail to live up to our expectations, or who later turn out to be corrupt, but at least we voted them in and they were not the result of this phenomenon of vote rigging and coercion happening in some communities.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Having a police presence at polling stations is indeed really interesting. Voting days here are usually pretty darn quiet and orderly. Am thinking this particular voting day is going to really be a BIG one for you all there.

I do hope the politicians get the message loud and clear that having a total open door policy just does not work.

Personally I do like Canada's policy in that immigration is granted on a point system with points going to education, career, profession etc. Course one the problems with this is that while Person A might qualify as soon as they are IN they can then sponsor the rest of their potentially huge extended family.

I'd love to see more controls put in place re: Immigration.

[Horus]

Well as I predicted there has been a huge surge in support for the UKIP party that took everyone by surprise even the political pundits who had already predicted a ground swell in their favour and the majority of people interviewed gave immigration and EU membership as the reason coupled with the fact that none of the other main parties acknowledged their concerns over those issues as the main reason for voting for them.

The leaders of the other three main parties are now running around like headless chickens trying to limit the damage to their party’s chances of being in power at the next general election. You have to remember that these are only local council elections and would not return any UKIP MP’s to parliament, but what it does is to give them far more power at local levels and that could result in main party’s losing votes at national level especially if UKIP target vulnerable seats.

I reckon that the biggest wake up call is yet to come on Sunday evening when the counting of the EU election results will start to come in. This is really where UKIP should slaughter the other party’s in the limited local elections are anything to go by, we have to wait until Sunday even though we voted on Thursday because the rest of Europe has not yet voted and it is a Europe wide election. Another imposed EU rule that says we must not count our votes early lest we influence another country in the way it votes, more EU prattle.

I predict that this one will be even more devastating for the other party’s with UKIP making colossal gains and I will even go as far as to say that there will be some surprise outcomes in some other EU countries with a big swing to anti-EU party’s who also oppose mass immigration into their own countries, Sunday evening will be very interesting.

[Grandad]

LLL, it wasn't such a BIG polling day as you might have thought. The local council elections were only for SOME and not all councils. My own local council elections coincide with the general election next year. I heard a figure of 36% turn out so not much interest shown.
The EU parliament elections are nationwide and in areas like mine where people would be expected to go to a polling station to vote for something the majority know little about means they don't bother. I will be interested to see the turn out for my area and I expect it to be very low with the Conservative vote holding up. This is a very 'blue' area. I vote by post so always register my vote.
I agree with Horus about 'murmurs of discontent' in other EU countries. There are parties in those countries equivalent to UKIP and it could well be that the EU parliament will have a majority of disenchanted members who collectively could at least start a review of the EU constitution. We are all getting fed up with being governed by Brussels. To a large extent we have lost our Sovereignty.

[carrie]

Racist racist racist, as soon as immigration issues are raised then that is the cry that goes up, so many people are frightened of being labled in such a way that they keep quiet.
It seems to be a genuine concern that the number of immigrants into the UK is reaching unacceptable levels.
Canada does seem to have the right idea but then Canada is not a member of the European Community and has more control over who is accepted into the country, in the referendum we had in 1972 (I think) to join the then EEC I voted against joining and have never regretted my vote.

[Horus]

As you say Carrie, anyone with a view on immigration is labelled a racist, no discussion, you are a racist and that is the problem. We are so used to having our genuine concerns ignored by the major party's that a backlash was inevitable and this week they have had it, the TV and radio is full of politicians who last week were branding UKIP supporters as 'racists' & 'looneys' are now having to eat their words or appear to be calling their usually core supporters 'racists' & 'looneys' and risk losing even more support in a general ellection. What never seems to get across is that there is not an objection to immigrants already living here, although they should assimilate more in many cases, it is the uncontrolled immigration policy that seems to have no end to it and concerns most people.

[LovelyLadyLux]

About 10 yrs ago in an office in the USA I WROTE a quote into a file from a CLIENT who said - "I see the oriental counselor...blah blah blah" I copied this as a direct quote cause it was important to know she was seeing a counselor. About a week later I was confronted by a reviewing supervisor who happened to be half Caucasian/half Japanese (she was very tiny but no other Asian features).

She immediately challenged that I was racist against Asian people and challenged that by using the word "oriental" I was "objectifying" an entire race!!! GIMME A BREAK!!!! First it was a direct quote and not my words......(and I did prevail in clearing up the matter) BUT was ORDERED at the HIGHEST LEVELS to change the word to ASIAN!!! Again - GIMME A BREAK!!!!

This was my first face to face run in with an OVER THE TOP PC person. BUT they are everywhere and are so much on power trips to throw out the racist word. This has given people of colour or new immigrants POWER. Honestly they're not stupid OR deaf and while many are wonderful there are those Newbies who are pushing an agenda and will use our extreme pussyfooting around to push theirs.

We can no longer call a spade a spade or even HINT at it and it is out of fear of being called a racist. I think it is this fear on our part combined with aggressiveness on the part of new Immigrants to preserve what they left yet reap the benefits that we're in troubles now.

I hope this election sends a clear message. Something has to be done.

As for Canada - well - we are not 'yet' experiencing these difficulties but it could come. The USA has a real Immigration problem with Hispanic and Latino people arriving illegally and the illegal population is estimated to be in the multiple MILLIONS. But then, the USA does not have a decent immigration policy either and I have heard on some News talk shows that they think they should adopt the Canadian model (which is odd cause we typically model US after YOU in the UK!!!)

[Grandad]

On Thursday there were many interviews with people on the street enquiring if, how and why they had voted. There were some interesting responses but the one that registered most with me was a man in Southend or Basildon I believe.
He said "I am not voting for Cameron (meaning the Conservatives in general) because he has made me a racist and that is something that I have never been".
I pondered on his reply because it didn't immediately register what his point was. Then the penny dropped. In his view with the open door immigration policy and severe lack of border control, he has started to dislike and resent the presence of foreign immigrants and because that is against his normal opinion he now feels like a racist. Quite a profound view but it certainly counters the argument of those who call UKIP supporters racist.

[Grandad]

LLL said:

we typically model US after YOU in the UK!!!)

Perhaps it is time to think again LLL

[LovelyLadyLux]

@ Grandad - that is a profound statement that man made but honestly I can relate. I can relate I the sense that I can no longer say "Merry Christmas" and I always have to be on guard that I might make a random comment or something might be taken out of context. I really do not know who these people are that didn't let me put up a Christmas tree in my office cubicle, who disallowed me saying Merry Christmas and the like but I really do NOT like them! I do not like them yet I have absolutely no recourse to do a darn thing about it.

I remember a while ago watching a show re: White Supremists in the USA. It was awhile ago but on talking to some of the Members and hearing their stories as to how they became a Member I actually started to empathize with some of them. I could actually see how they began to hate other races.

Now that there has been a vote it will be very interesting to see how things play out.

IMO we have become PC to the extreme which is to our own detriment.

[Horus]

And that is the problem Grandad, that guy summed it up for most people and what he said is true for most people. In the main we do not object to other races or immigrants as long as they fit in, we are to be fair a pretty tolerant race of people. As he so rightly says, it is the likes of Cameron, Gordon Brown and previous politicians who through their blinkered “we know what’s best for you” attitude with no consultation with the public and ignoring public opinion that has in many cases brought out the worst in people and because they have no alternative they start to demonise the immigrants, so yes it is the likes of Cameron and Co. who have made people have racist attitudes and I can see why he says that.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'm pretty certain I can say with honestly that I really do not have any preconceived 'hates' or 'dislikes' about people - any people. If I do then it is a bias that is so ingrained in me I'm unaware of it. I can say that I'm also pretty laid back and tolerant and one usually has to do something pretty darn blatant and not nice for it to get under my skin AND I really do think and believe that most of us are like this. BUT the proverbial "WE" are getting pushed and while our backs aren't yet 'up against the wall' we're more than aware the wall is there and looming high and we can literally feel the heat radiating off of it. Once we bump up and see now way out we will become like a cornered wild animal and will start lashing out. The weakest link will get it first and they're often the least able or capable of defending themselves.

[Grandad]

Well there you have it then. UKIP gain a sweeping victory by winning the EU elections for the UK. And now the other two parties (I no longer consider the Lib Dems as a viable third party) are saying they need to take notice of the message from the people in the UKIP vote.

Doh! They have had four years to listen to the people but all the coalition have done is bummed up their success in improving the economy and never a word about immigration, the EU and wider issues of concern to the public.

Now Cameron is playing on his promised referendum on Europe in 2017 (That is if he is still PM of course). In my opinion that could have been brought forward but he needs time to do some negotiation of our terms of membership but in the end I have no doubt that the question will be so loaded as to make it almost impossible to leave the EU or at least significantly change our relationship.

This was something that started as the EEC (European Economic Community), a trading group which over the years has become the USE (United States of Europe) or very nearly. The change has been slow and gradual but we have reached a point where we have lost our autonomy in many areas and it is this loss of Sovereignty that people are objecting to and voting for parties like UKIP. And the UK is not alone. Look at the other countries particularly France where Marine le Pens National Front has had a shattering victory.

I don't see Nigel Farages UKIP getting similar results in next Mays general election. I DO expect them to get a few MP's but their policies, whatever they are' are too narrow to cause a major swing away from the Tories or Socialists. I would not be in the least surprised if they get more MP's than the Lib Dems and that would put an even bigger grin on Nigels face.

[Horus]

There are certainly a few bottoms being well and truly smacked with these results, but as Grandad says they are still making excuses and not taking on board the real reason behind the big anti vote in this country. Clegg is on the TV as I type and he is still warbling on about his own achievements as though we all owe him a big dept of some kind, he just does not get it. He does not understand that everyone hates his parties lack of principle on issues they campaigned on to get elected and that most people think that their disproportionate influence on this coalition government is stopping the Tory party from maybe making some changes that people want. They are all saying “Oh it’s just a protest vote” well yes it is, but one that keeps gaining momentum and it will become worse because even with this massive vote against the EU and open borders and even Denmark having a 20% vote against immigration and Germany having a new anti Euro currency party getting 7% of the vote and the French having a blatantly anti Islamic party elected we are still unlikely to see any changes because for the core ruling elite to change would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Guess the bottom line is that there is LOTS of UNREST. Lots of concerns about issues the politicians are not willing or able to address. Seems people are slowly becoming aware that their elected reps are sitting on their cushy duffs and not carrying through with promises. Seems the ground swells has started. Lets hope it continues on so that real reforms can be made.