What's your MOOD today

[Mad Dilys]

Totally agree Horus, but I live in my daughter's house, which had been empty for 6 years until I moved in about 3 years ago. So I have to get her approval for any work done. Um, I should get approval as I'm not privy to her finances.

A little of what you fancy does do you good - I raided the Halloween excess sweetie jug yesterday. Just fancied chocolate, which is strange as I only like very dark chocolate. I discovered small packets of tiny milk chocolate stars which eaten slowly and individually were lovely - half a packet and I was satisfied. Odd. But nice.

[Horus]

The thing is that a modern boiler and central heating can only add value to a property as well as helping to keep it damp free. Should your daughter come to sell the property the odds are that it would fail the estate agents criteria with an old type inefficient boiler. The old Potterton type boilers were very robust but very inefficient fuel wise, but they lasted for years with few problems. Modern condensing boilers are far more efficient and definitely save money on heating costs, the downside is that they do not have the same lifespan, so you maybe need to think of them being replaced after about 10 to 12 years. However as they are relatively cheap and generally more reliable you should come out the right side of initial costs versus fuel savings.

[Ruby Slippers]

I don’t know about you MD, but I have come to the conclusion that denying yourself something providing you can afford it is a no no. Why not have the benefit of that new car or new boiler and at least get some use out of it while you are able, none of us knows what is around the corner and lets face it as each year passes we have less time to enjoy those comforts so why wait?

Are you giving me your full permission to buy myself that £11,000 longarm quilting machine, Horus?

[Horus]

I don’t know about you MD, but I have come to the conclusion that denying yourself something providing you can afford it is a no no. Why not have the benefit of that new car or new boiler and at least get some use out of it while you are able, none of us knows what is around the corner and lets face it as each year passes we have less time to enjoy those comforts so why wait?

Are you giving me your full permission to buy myself that £11,000 longarm quilting machine, Horus?

If that is what makes you happy, then I am

[Mad Dilys]

By the way it's Worcester Combi boiler for it's sins.

[Ruby Slippers]

Bless you, Horus, but at my advanced age, I just can't justify the expense!

[Horus]

By the way it's Worcester Combi boiler for it's sins.

Is that your new one MD?

[Mad Dilys]

I haven't got a new one, I only saw the chap about 2 hours ago! He is in accord with you chaps that a condenser is the way to go.

He may also disconnect the big tank in the loft which serves the bathroom - crazy idea as the bathroom sink is immediately above the boiler! As I said before the Bodger family have had a field day here.

I won't mention the electrics at this point..............

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'm rather of a mind like Horus in that I see nothing much wrong with putting into a place whatever it is that is going to overall upgrade it vs living with something old and maybe inefficient by todays standards.

I guess I always rationalize that so long as I'm improving the value of the property I might as well go for it. Nothing totally frivolous but that which I can afford and which will actually add $$ to the overall cost of the place.

As for actually heating - I am heated via a furnace and heat pump on gas. Should that ever not work for whatever reason I've bought 3 electric infrared furnaces (portable) and while they call them furnaces (as full blast they can heat 1200sq ft they're also somewhat decorative in that they're in wood cabinets, tall (I have a plant on 2 of them). I've also got 2 small ones for bedrooms. The idea being IF I lose gas I can always get by on electric sufficient the house won't freeze and pipes won't break.

All that being said these were each something like $150USD. And for zone heating they're excellent. Put them in a room across from a window and turn on to whatever desired temperature and let them go. They'll keep any room nice and toasty and don't have the same 'fire' factor as ceramic heaters.

My mood is relaxed and thinking about what I'm going to do today ..........

[Grandad]

He may also disconnect the big tank in the loft which serves the bathroom - crazy idea as the bathroom sink is immediately above the boiler! As I said before the Bodger family have had a field day here.

Something doesn't seem to be adding up here MD? The tank in the loft would have been needed to produce a 'head' for the movement of hot water around the system. Do you have an airing cupboard with a hot water storage tank? If so your current boiler is probably not a combi but the one your plumber is proposing probably IS if he proposes to remove the loft tank.
Combi's don't have hot water storage tanks. simple condensing boilers do....

[Mad Dilys]

Yes Grandad, you sound as perplexed as myself and three previous plumbers were!

In the corner of the kitchen is a Worcester Combi boiler as identified by all of us and Mr Google. This Boiler heats the water for the kitchen sink which is almost underneath it, the radiators in all rooms and the hall and has no header tank.

When I moved in I assumed that the bathroom sink and bath immediately over the boiler were also supplied by it.

However, the first time I went on holiday before I left the house I turned of all the switches in the consumer unit cupboard.

When I returned I turned them all back on - except for two square white switches with a small red light on each (obviously not lit at the time)One labelled TOP and the other BOTTOM I walked through the house checking everything and all seemed well - hot water in the kitchen, radiators working all lights and plugs.

Next morning when I went to get a shower there was no hot water in the bathroom. Called the plumber, asked if he wanted steps to go into the loft as I have never known a plumber who didn't want to go up there. He said he didn't need it, took a big tile surrounding the control off breaking it in the process and fitted a new mixer in the power shower.

It didn't work. Next day another plumber came and said that the slate wall would have to be opened in order to see what was going on. I refused this off of "help" and asked for a further opinion.

This chap seemed pretty approachable and when he too couldn't tell what the problem was I asked if he wanted to go into the loft and he accepted! His face appeared at the loft door and he said "Did you know you have a large hot water tank up here?" Obviously I didn't. He suggested we look for the power supply to the tank which had two immersion heaters fitted.

Immediately I said Ahah! Top and Bottom! and ran to turn the switches on - Hey Presto! Hot water in the bathroom! Problem solved. Why they would be hidden in the consumer unit cupboard far away from the bathroom or the tank I have no idea. Crazy.

Neither my daughter or I had ever been in the loft nor knew how the bathroom water was heated. In fact when my daughter was absent she just unplugged things and didn't turn off the consumer unit - so the immersion heaters were permanently on whether the house was occupied or not.

I will never understand why the whole house isn't supplied from the boiler.

[Grandad]

@MadDilys That all gave me a good laugh MD. So you have a tank in the loft with two immersion heaters. The plus side is, you should never have problems with frozen pipes in the loft, you actually have a kind of centreal heating system up thjere. I bet you never have frost or snow on your roof, the birds must love your roof, under foot heating.
From what you say you really do have a combi boiler and I cannot understand why the bathroom was never connected into that closed system. It is mains driven so it doesn't matter if the bathroom is above the boiler.
So does that mean you have no heated towel rail or radiator in the bathroom?
When I installed my CH system I plumbed the circuit so that even in warmer months we still have warm dry towels.

But I do really now understand where you are coming from vis a vis The Bodgers.

[Horus]

Hang on here a moment folks, Combi Boilers do not require a header tank or a hot water storage tank as they work off the mains pressure cold water. A Condensing boiler is just an improvement on the Combi system that captures more waste heat and is now the standard for all new boilers to be of the condensing type. Neither type of Combi boiler (standard or condensing) have a hot water storage tank although they do have an small expansion tank because the central heating loop is what is known as a closed circuit and as it heats up the water has to expand somewhere.

'System' boilers do require a hot water storage tank but again everything else is built into the boiler, but these are mainly only used where a constant supply of hot water may be required as in large properties or multiple bathrooms where you may not have enough constant hot water supplied by a standard Combi.

The main thing with all these modern boilers is that they work off the mains pressure and do not require header tanks for domestic or central heating water so these can be removed.

[Mad Dilys]

I've got a new condensing tumble drier, takes out an incredible amount of water and up to a 9kg load - but seems to be on for ages even for reasonably small loads. Has top energy rating though. I got a litre of water out of a load of washing the other day that had
already been spun at over 1,000 rpm. We didn't have a tumble drier before, but obviously in Cardiff the times washing can dry outside are very limited. I hope the old condensation problem is going to be a thing of the past.

The new washing machine is fantastic. Also highly rated, load up to 9 kg, but very flexible on size of loads, time, heat and spin.
Both are Hoover, and the tumble drier cost more than the washer.

[Horus]

My tumble dryer is piped outside, but my daughter has the condensing type which I will get myself when it needs replacement

[Horus]

My mood is thoroughly Brassed off
Just opened my post quite late today and there was a large Christmassy looking envelope from ‘The Postcode Lottery’ Yes! Yes! I thought as I danced around in anticipation of a winning prize only to find a bloody advent calendar inside, wow thanks for nothing, they’re as bad as the Premium Bond email.

[Grandad]

The main thing with all these modern boilers is that they work off the mains pressure and do not require header tanks for domestic or central heating water so these can be removed.

You've lost me there mate? When you say 'All these modern boilers' are you saying ALL condensing boilers? If so I have to disagree. I have a recent Worcester Bosch condensing boiler (not combi) anssd that does not run directly off the mains, and I have an expansion, a header and hot water storage tanks.....

[Horus]

The main thing with all these modern boilers is that they work off the mains pressure and do not require header tanks for domestic or central heating water so these can be removed.

You've lost me there mate? When you say 'All these modern boilers' are you saying ALL condensing boilers? If so I have to disagree. I have a recent Worcester Bosch condensing boiler (not combi) anssd that does not run directly off the mains, and I have an expansion, a header and hot water storage tanks.....

In that case it is a 'systems' boiler and not a Combi

[Ruby Slippers]

All this discussion about boilers tends to make me feel GLAD that I have a plain and simple water heater, electric shower and gas fires!

[Horus]

There is actually nothing complicated about it RS, Combi boilers are fitted to over 50% of properties. They are very simple but efficient systems. They require no cold water header tanks or hot water tanks and they can run a full central heating system and supply hot water instantly on demand. They are not difficult to install as they just have to connect to a cold water mains supply coming in, an electrical supply to control and operate them, plus a gas supply to fuel them, all available in most kitchens. They then have a connection to your central heating system and another to your hot water pipes. You do not have to heat up a water cylinder for your hot water as every time you open a tap anywhere in your home the boiler gives you almost instant hot water constantly as long as the tap is open. The central heating system is a closed and pressurised loop that rarely requires topping up unlike the older conventional atmospheric CH systems that required an additional header/expansion tank in your loft space. When people talk about having a condensing boiler it is simply a boiler (either Combi or System type) that retrieves the heat that would be wasted going up the flue pipe, it creates water as a result so hence the name ‘condensing’ or condense boiler. All boilers sold now have to be of the condensing type, in other words more efficient.