Place names

[Ruby Slippers]

Reading Grandad's great review of Ightham Mote, I was suddenly reminded of a subject which has long fascinated me - place names! Many years ago, DH and I would just go for a drive out to see if some of these places on the map matched up to the quaintness of their name. Very often they did but occasionally we were deeply disappointed. I remember one in particular - Pease Pottage! It sounds wonderfully old fashioned, doesn't it? The reality, however, was a brick built town, with lots of industry! Some places make me wonder how they came to be named though. For instance: Honeypot Lane; Tinkerpot Lane; Calfstock Lane etc. Do you have quaint place names where you live?

[Horus]

Good subject RS There are as you say lots of names that often beg the question as to how they arose, some are self explanatory whilst others are not so easy to figure out. One I remember from a child that used to amuse us when out in the car was a couple of Cheshire villages with the names of Upper and Lower Peover, both pronounced as ‘Peever’. So we kids would take great delight in saying “Oh look mum, Upper Pee-Over”. Another that springs to mind is a very narrow, winding lane that is mostly sunken with high banks on each side called ‘Foxholes’ and it seems to fit the name, although I have yet to see a fox whilst using it.

[Mad Dilys]

I was born in Strood aand then lived in Snodland.??

I lived in Jockey Lane, Cranbrook as a child.

Apparently when they traditionally held horse sales in the village, the horses would be ridden up and down the lane to show off their paces..

The Cranbrook village sign has, funnily enough a picture of a Crane in a stream.

I later lived in Yew Tree Road, Three Elm Lane, and Golden Green. Apparently the last named was a reference to the gorse bushes which covered the now non-existent common land.

These places were followed by Hartley, obviously where the wild deer could be found.

I also worked at North Frith, which was at Four Wents (a cross roads)and I know of a Five Wents as well.

I have an old map by John Speed made in the 1600's and North and South Frith are shown as Enclosures. North Frith was a beautiful Mansion in parkland owned by one of the Horne Brothers who were very upmarket gentlemen's tailors - but bought by the electricity board just after I left.

Snodland is also on the old map. Of course no Brighton or Tunbridge Wells that came later.

It says on the bottom of the map that it is to be sold in Pope's Head Ally - thereby hangs another tale?

[Horus]

Some interesting little snippets there MD Apparently according to Wiki, the name Cranbrook is derived from 'Crane Broc' or a marshy area where Cranes (or more likely Herons) would congregate. I suppose someone decided that is was 'Brook' and not Broc so stuck a Crane in a stream instead

[LovelyLadyLux]

I think many of the names of our cities and towns came from UK place names. We have a Cranbrook in British Columbia and even the name of this province is a direct reflection of where the people who settled this area came from. The capital of BC is "Victoria" after the Queen.

In this area many of the city and town names come from the First Nations tribes and bands i.e. Comox, Kyuquot, Nanoose, Cowichan but other names - Parksville, Ladysmith, Duncan, Campbell River are simple names. Nor do we have nearly as many places as you have there in the UK.

[Horus]

Interesting the one called Ladysmith LLL, that name harks back to South Africa and was a town besieged by the Boers during the Second Boer War of 1899 opposing British rule on that continent. Britain sent reinforcements to relive the besieged garrison and they even dismantled naval guns and hauled them overland for that purpose and the naval military display where troops dismantle field artillery and carry them across obstacles and reassemble them in a competition of speed, is derived from this bit of British history.

The Boers eventually withdrew and this became know as “The Relief of Ladysmith” although to me it always sounded like some Lords wife dying for a pee! Ergo “The Relief of Lady Smith”
Well that’s my little snippet for today.

[Grandad]

Went through Ladysmith in 2002 H. Only stopped for a coffe break and have only one picture but as with all places with a bit of history, Ladysmith still cashes in on it, and why not

But reflecting on RS's subject; we have hundreds of villages scattered around east Kent. 5 miles from me is Wickhambreaux, a village just off the main road and as a result retains much of its old charm. Dates back to Roman times and in The Domesday book it was called Wicheham.

Another, just along the road from me, is Tyler Hill. Still retains some charm although on a secondary main road. Origination is obvious and the Time Team (is that what it was called with Tony Robinson) did excavations there and found remains of medieval tile kilns.

I have relatives up towards Horus's area and some of those name are quaint to say the least. There is Draycott in the Clay, Barton under Needwood, and Alrewas that I can never pronounce like the locals.

[Horus]

Went through Ladysmith in 2002 H. Only stopped for a coffe break and have only one picture but as with all places with a bit of history, Ladysmith still cashes in on it, and why not

Were you heading for Durban Grandad? If so did you visit the battlefield at Rorke’s Drift as featured in the film Zulu? You were only about 40 miles away as the crow flies.

[Grandad]

No we didn't H. We travelled from Jo'burg via Durban and Knysna to Cape Town. We stayed in Mpumalanga Kruger, and in HluhLuwe Zululand, game reserves. My camera was a Fuji DX10, my first digital I believe, and the pictures are less than 100k and unfortunately I don't have too many from that super holiday.

[Horus]

Been to most of those places Grandad including Port Elizabeth, Knysna is special though, bet you didn't see the Elephants No doubt you travelled along the Orange Blossom trail or maybe you took The Blue Train.

[LovelyLadyLux]

So many place names have a really exotic sound to them and it is interesting to hear how even some of the smaller places have names. Also kinda cute how some of the names come to have different meanings depending on if there can be a play on the words or sounds contained in the name.

[Horus]

It is interesting how many of our older place names in the UK owe their origin to either a Roman, Celtic, Saxon or Viking word.
Scottish names such as Kirklees, Kirkcaldy, Kirkby ar all derived from the Viking word for a church which is ‘Kirk’ often it is reversed to something like Ormskirk or Selkirk.

In Wales, names that have ‘Aber’ in them are of Celtic origin and mean a river mouth as in Aberdaron, Abersoch and Aberystwyth and this also applies to over the border in Scotland with the likes of Aberdeen.

Roman names such as ‘Caster’ ‘Chester’ and ‘Cester’ meaning a camp or fort are very commonly seen in English place names as in Tadcaster, Lancaster, Chester, Manchester, Cirencester are just a few examples of the many such names we have.

Saxon words such as ‘Bourne’ for a stream can be found in place names such as Bournemouth, Ashbourne, Eastbourne etc. and ‘Ton’ or ‘Tun’ meaning a house or a farm is often included in village or town names, so Bolton, Preston, Weston and Tunbridge to name a few.

If we tried to analyse a name such as ‘Tunbridge Wells’ it would probably translate as something like:
‘Tun’= the house, farm or manor
‘Bridge’ or maybe ‘Brocce = Bridge or possibly a causeway
= Ton-bridge = or the farm by the causeway
And ‘Wells’ from a popular spa spring that existed nearby and this was added to the towns name to become “the farm by the causeway, near to the bathing spa”

Of course we cannot forget the longest place name in the world (probably) which is on the Isle of Anglesea in North Wales of ‘Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch’ but usually just called Llanfair Pwllgwyngyl by the locals, or sometimes just Llanfair PG.
The long version is a contrived name, but the original shorter version means something like
“The Church of Mary, near the pool, near the White Hazels”
I think that the longer version means something like:
“St Mary’s church, white hazels girt, (Hazels trees surround it) by the whirlpool and the red cave of Llantysiliog”

[Grandad]

Been to most of those places Grandad including Port Elizabeth, Knysna is special though, bet you didn't see the Elephants No doubt you travelled along the Orange Blossom trail or maybe you took The Blue Train.

I only have about 100 pictures H from a 3 week tour. After the game reserves we flew from Durban to Port Elizabeth and followed The Garden Route via Plettenberg, Knysna (stayed right on the quayside), George (ride the Outenigua Choo Tjoe), Momtagu, Paarl, and into Cape Town (loved The Waterfront). A brilliant holiday but, no, we didn't see the elephants.

My wife had been before in 1993. After my brother in law died my sister and my wife went to visit a friend in Stellenbosch so she was one up on me.

But we are drifting, as usual, and I could reminisce about SA for ages, beautiful country.....

[Horus]

The reason I mentioned the Elephants Grandad was that in the Knysna forest, (which is I think the only remnant of some original primeval forest) they discovered a small herd of a sub species of Elephant living there that were unique to that particular location. When I last visited they had not been seen for about 20 years so they do not know if they are now extinct or just very shy.

[Grandad]

We heard about the elephants when we went across to Featherbed reserve. Nice if they were still surviving.

[bigken]

Here's a street i came across in St Andrews, seemed to bring a smile to a lot of tourists

[Grandad]

Would that be 'Flatulence Alley' south of the border BK

The village we went to for lunch yesterday is the uninspiring Hoath in Kent. What does intrigue me is that within the parish boundaries are the Hamlets of, Knaves Ash, Maypole, Ford, Old Tree, Shelvingford and Stoney Acre. These will each be just a cluster of a few houses, or even just a farm, and their names will have some significance to their location.

The pub is The Prince of Wales, proper country pub with ceilings adorned with last years hops. To be replenished next month with the new crop. Poor picture but you can see what I mean.



And would you believe the village has a small grass General Aviation airfield, code EGHB, called Maypole Airfield.

[LovelyLadyLux]

It is interesting how many of our older place names in the UK owe their origin to either a Roman, Celtic, Saxon or Viking word.
Scottish names such as Kirklees, Kirkcaldy, Kirkby ar all derived from the Viking word for a church which is ‘Kirk’ often it is reversed to something like Ormskirk or Selkirk.

In Wales, names that have ‘Aber’ in them are of Celtic origin and mean a river mouth as in Aberdaron, Abersoch and Aberystwyth and this also applies to over the border in Scotland with the likes of Aberdeen.

Roman names such as ‘Caster’ ‘Chester’ and ‘Cester’ meaning a camp or fort are very commonly seen in English place names as in Tadcaster, Lancaster, Chester, Manchester, Cirencester are just a few examples of the many such names we have.

Saxon words such as ‘Bourne’ for a stream can be found in place names such as Bournemouth, Ashbourne, Eastbourne etc. and ‘Ton’ or ‘Tun’ meaning a house or a farm is often included in village or town names, so Bolton, Preston, Weston and Tunbridge to name a few.

If we tried to analyse a name such as ‘Tunbridge Wells’ it would probably translate as something like:
‘Tun’= the house, farm or manor
‘Bridge’ or maybe ‘Brocce = Bridge or possibly a causeway
= Ton-bridge = or the farm by the causeway
And ‘Wells’ from a popular spa spring that existed nearby and this was added to the towns name to become “the farm by the causeway, near to the bathing spa”

I found this very interesting Horus. Never realized it. Very interesting.

Here there are bylaws regarding what you might name a business in that, for example, if you had a car dealership they would prefer you called it Toyota Cars of (name of city) or Honda's of (Name of City) vs something like "VOOM VOOM Car Sales." They like to approve businesses that say what it is (i.e. Restaurant, Car Sales, Clothing Store) and incorporate the name of the city into that.