Where Next after Paris

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Horus
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Horus »

I agree entirely LLL, they seem very capable of organising protests when it affects them in some way, but little in the way of speaking out en mass against this sort of outrage :st

The second lot of hostages was taken by the 3rd gunman and his girlfriend who escaped seperately, anyway the good news is that they are all dead :up just a tradgedy that some of the hostages were also murdered as the two seiges were ended.


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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Yes - now that I've had a chance to see the morning news I can see the outcome. Totally tragic all round.

It isn't going to stop and (like I expounded on the Blue) if this was Christian nutters suddenly popping up and committing atrocities even though I'm not an actively practicing religious person I'd definitely be out there making sure the world knew it IS NOT ME!

Since this forum is about Egypt I see no reason that Egyptian leaders couldn't be calling for mass gatherings in Tahrir to protest these killings! They can protest en masse at the drop of a hat about many other real or perceived insult to Islam yet this perversion of their religion is not precipitating any over the top outrage as many other small acts have done.

One thing is for certain - the MORE terror attacks that occur the more emboldened terrorists will be to strike. Terror breeds terror - not the reverse.
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Jayway »

Oh well, I cant say I agree with you, the quieter muslim will keep their heads down for the time being, they have to breed more whilst the terrorists keep the faith going - dont be fooled.
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

We have the head of MI5 and a big spatter of American Heads of various and different organizations (FBI, CIA - those types) saying that other global attacks are pending and highly likely. The American have issued an all points bulletin asking all citizens to be aware & cautious.

There is also lots of talk about developing a nation-wide phone number where suspicious activities can be called in.

One News Commentator commented that there is something like 49,000 names on the American "no fly" list which is rather indicative of the size of the problem that is being dealt with just related to those terror types who are actually ON a no fly list.

I personally think it is a given that there is going to be other attacks and should I become privy ever to one I would appreciate having a phone number I could actually call into to report my concerns. We have phone numbers for everything else so I think something like this would be appropriate except anything and everything and everybody could then quickly call in and swamp the lines ....... how to combat this does become the question.
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Grandad »

I listened to a muslim lady in Paris being interviewed. She said that she abhored the killings and the people doing them who are not representative of muslim people at large. However, she did say that she finds cartoons, like those produced by Charlie Hebdo, offensive to her religious beliefs.
But, she is free to express her feelings as part of a debate, not a basis for extremist terrorism. I believe that underlying, and goaded by the likes of al-Qaeda and IS, this attitude is used by the extremists to justify their actions 'In the name of Allah'
I have no doubt that the vast majority of muslim people find it hard to accept the freedom of speech that we enjoy and that they too are offended by such cartoons. However some become radicallised and take their offence to the extreme.
As the saying goes 'When in Rome do as the Romans do' and I would say, if you cannot accept the ways and traditions of the country in which you choose to live, then go and live somewhere else.
:gg:
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Horus »

The principle is "you have the right to feel offended" but "You do not have the right not to be offended" and that applies to us all. I once remember seeing a TV debate programme in which a young Muslim woman was putting forwards her argument that she was entitled to wear the Hijab as it was her freedom of choice to decide what she wore. The man sitting next to her turned and showed her his T shirt that had a matchstick man picture of Jesus and Mohammed greeting each other in a jocular manner, she immediately started to rant that the image offended her! So it seemed that she insisted on her rights to wear what she wanted, but happily denied the man his right to do the same thing. :tk
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Grandad »

H, not being picky but don't your two statements mean the same thing or am I missing a point?

ie. "You do not have the right not to be offended" has a double negative so means the same as "you have the right to feel offended"

Have I got my Monday thicko head on.? :?: :lol:
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Horus »

Depends upon how you read it Grandad, perhaps "You do not have a right not to be offended" makes it clearer. In other words you may have a right to object to something and hencforth be offended by it, but there is no right for you not to be offended in some way by others.
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Personally I abhor porn and the entire sicko thing re: degradation of men/women etc as in Larry Flynn and Hustler Magazine - HOWEVER - no matter how distasteful I personally find it (and I basically ignore the entire subject) I'd fall on my sword defending his right to publish it. We really MUST above all maintain freedom of speech and we can't allow anybody else to dictate what we can and can't say.

I had no idea what Hebdo published in that I never saw one of their publications. Might have been very thought provoking. My mantra if it bothered you then don't look at it, ignore it.
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Horus »

The one thing for sure is that Charlie Hebdo will certainly publish some of those offending cartoons and it will sell over a million copies, so even more people will be seeing them now than ever before. It will be even harder for other mainstream publications not to carry reports or even reproduce the cartoons themselves, so now the cat is now really out of the bag. The end result of all this is that by the stupid actions of a few intollerant fanatics many more people will actually see these cartoons than would have ever bothered before and only because these religious fanatics tried to impose their warped views on everyone else, they have in effect have brought down more ridicule upon their prophet than any publication could ever have done. 8)
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Grandad »

Isn't it shere hypocricy for Saudi Arabia to send a strongly worded message to France condemning the shootings by Islamist extremists, while in their own country they condemn a man to 10 years in prison and 1000 lashes over a period of 20 weeks, for the crime of speeking his mind?
If they (the Saudis) condemn the action of the gunmen, are they showing some tolerance for the cartoons published by Charlie Hebdo? If so why is no tolerance shown to Raif Badawi for a far less crime (if it can be called a crime) of expressing his critical views of Islam?

Until 7th January I had never heard of Charlie Hebdo, not surprising with a weekly circulation of fewer than 60.000. Having now looked at some of their published cartoons I have to say that many are extreme and go beyond satirical comment or decency. I am not only talking about cartoons that poke fun at religion but other areas where their 'fun' is taken to extreme.

Knowing that they push the boundaries to the limit and beyond, was it really wise to go ahead with the publication of last Wednedays edition?? They may be applauded for standing up for free speech but I think there are boundaries that should not be breached in the name of common decency.

And I am not saying that the 'press' should be controlled by religious extremists. I simply believe that a degree of wise judgement is called for on many occasions with publishers taking a broader view.

Is Raif Badawi in the same class as Charlie Hebdo?
:gg:
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

The news here is indicating that King Abdullah has intervened and asked for a review of the Raif Badawi matter - however - he has apparently already had 50 lashes and there are medical concerns before he can get a second set of 50 lashes. I'm not sure the details re: King Abdullah's intervention i.e. is it just medical concerns or is he changing the sentence or ?

AND IMO a sentence of 1000 lashes every Friday is totally over the top ridiculous. AND I don't want to even start on how ridiculous I think it is for anybody to be sentenced for blogging concerns about a religion.........

Are these two alleged 'crimes' - Badawi and Hebdo on the same level? They're both freedom of speech and IMO the basis of any democratic system is the ability to say whatever you want whenever you want. If I don't like what you say I ignore it and you and no matter how abhorrent your writings are I'm ok that you can say them.

In my mind I think the terrorists would have found some excuse to attack something. Hebdo gives them their reason but if they hadn't attacked there they would have attacked somewhere else.

It is interesting, and now I'm referencing the Belgian situation, that the terrorists seem to be targeting the smaller less able to defend themselves countries. I'm sure they do have an overall plan and system in place and the more they're striking the more they are striking which is also the essence of terrorism.

I definitely hope the global community comes together with plans to eradicate. I say eradicate as I can't envision at all any form of compromise or negotiation that ISIS/Terrorists/Jihadis would actually abide by.
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Re: Where Next after Paris

Post by Horus »

The Saudis are by anyone’s reckoning nothing more than a sponsor of global terrorism, they rule by power alone and support a most extreme version of the Islamic faith and treat women and other religions with contempt, if it were not for their importance in the global supply of oil they would be considered pariahs in any civilised world. It is only the support of the Western powers that keep this (and I use the word loosely) royal family in power. My one hope is that the plunge in oil prices will have some impact upon this small and backward regime that has for too long had an undue influence and stranglehold on the western world and it is sent back along with its religious doctrines and practices into the medieval world in which it really belongs.
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