Oscar in Africa

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LovelyLadyLux
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Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Anybody following the Blade Runner murder trial? It is super big on TV here. Not really sure why other than to think that it is somehow making good TV and nothing else bigger is knocking it off the air. Seems the American Public (this is mostly on US TV) just LOVES watching Murder Trials.

I do find it interesting that Oscar's trial is conducted in front of one Judge. Pretty difficult to fool one Judge who is used to all the emotional and other shenanigans of Defense Lawyers.

Is Oscar guilty?

I'm inclined to think yes myself.


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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Horus »

Yes LLL, I have been following it most days on TV as it is always interesting to hear the evidence from both sides. What is coming over quite clearly is that he is obviously a very aggressive person when things don't go his own way and pretty reckless to say the least with firearms. The other witnesses are seeming to agree that there was an argument, screaming and then gunshots, so the likely scenario is of a very heated row, she flees to the bathroom and locks herself in, he gets angry and tries to batter the door down with a cricket bat, she is screaming even more, he gets more enraged and fires several shots through the door when she won't come out. He probably never though he would kill her, but at the time he was just seeing red and never thought about the consequences. :sd
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Yes that about sums up what is being heard here. His one friend who described Oscar shooting off another gun albeit "accidentally?" (not) and then asking somebody else to say they fired it doesn't sound too good for him.

Am sure Oscar has overcome quite a bit in his life given his legs and he must have an extremely strong will to have maintained his atheletics/running AND worked to get himself qualified to ultimately get into the Olympics!!
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Grandad »

Well, the case has been going for some time now and we have seen some very aggressive prosecution questioning, some of it in my opinion almost inhumane.

Some are suggesting that Pistorius is putting on a brilliant act to try to persuade the judges that he did not intend to kill Reeva. I think he is behaving like a broken man and full of remorse.
I am sure he did not intend to kill Reeva, more wanted to frighten her, but in his rage did not think of the consequences of his actions.

He has a very short fuse, that is accepted. There is no question that he shot Reeva. I do not think the judges will accept his plea that he thought there was an intruder.

My guess is that he will be found guilty of manslaughter but while his state of mind was disturbed. As a result I predict a lenient sentence of maybe 10 years with psychiatric treatment, which with remission can be reduced to 5.
:gg:
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Horus »

Remember that the South African judicial system is slightly different to ours in the UK, so the charges against him are different to our manslaghter charge even if found not guilty of murder. However I am sure that there will be an appeal on some grounds if and when he is found guilty of killing Reeva Steenkamp, a charge he cannot escape and that is why the prosecution is constantly asking him if he is in a fit state to reply and asking for adjournments whenever he becomes stressed, this is to negate any future pleas of being unable to defend himself due to stress. I am not sure that I agree about the questioning being too tough, he is being very evasive when it suits him, but pin sharp when he spots the most minor discrepancy. It does seem that his emotions take over when difficult questioning arises and the prosecutor is aware of this ploy and responds by asking for an ajournment so as to give him no grounds to appeal for unfair duress. Also as he is the only witness to the event the prosecution must destroy his credibility in order to get a conviction, so in order to get justice one way or the other for Reeva Steenkamp the prosecution has to persue an agressive line of questioning because Pistorius himself is not going to be swayed from his own account of events so they must be fully tested to ensure he is not lying. The bottom line is that he did kill her, so it is his own actions that got him in this position in the first place, even under South African law he is not supposed to kill an intruder unless under certain extreme circumstances, none of which existed at the time. When you compare his highly unbelievable sequence of events aganst the more likely scenario that they had a blazing row and he fired at her in a fit of tantrum and killed her then I doubt if many juries in this country would aquit him . :td
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Kiya »

In all honesty I think he is as sly as a fox & I'm getting really fed up hearing it all the time that now I change channels & what's this " Yes M' Lady " and " No M' Lady with every answer from him................grrrrrrrrrr :xx what a farce :!:
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I'm of the opinion that Oscar and Reeva had a row, she fled to the bathroom and he shot her through the door killing her with full knowledge of what he was doing (at the time). Now he has had time to prepare and practice his defense but I don't think it'll hold up. I'm kinda of the opinion that his breaking down is his own frustration when he feels he is not succeeding in being believed. Oscar is a smart and obviously determined man given everything he has overcome and accomplished but I think this particular scenario isn't going to go his way. He might have been able to sway a jury but a single judge? Nahhh.......
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Horus »

Remember that the people sitting on each side of her also have an input, so if the judge misses something or they think she is making the wrong conclusion then they are able to intervene, not in public of course but in the judge's chambers. I agree it does seem a bit silly the way he keeps answering "yes My lady" & "No My lady" but during the whole trial Pistorius has never addressed the prosecutor directly, he always makes his answer to the female judge who of course is "My Lady" or "M'-lady" very similar to our own high court legal system when council have to address the judge as "M'-lord" ("My Lord"). What sounds strange to our ears is that because he addresses the judge directly we hear this at the end of every sentence he speaks :cry:
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I never noticed Oscar's answers to the Judge as being strange as the practice of answering directly to the Judge IS the same in Canada. The Judge is referred to however as "His Honour" or "Her Honour." The attorney (Defense or Prosecutor) asks you a question but you answer it looking at and speaking to the Judge. You don't answer the question back to the attorney. MOST court actions in Canada are presided over by a single Judge too. Very very rarely is there ever a Jury. Conversely I think the USA would sit a Jury for a traffic ticket!!
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Horus »

Our legal system has different levels depending upon the severity of the offence and the location of the court. In a magistrates court which is the lowest level you are tried before the one person i.e. the magistrate and would address them as Your Worship, or Sir or Madam.
A district judge (next level up) would also be called Sir or Madam, Circuit Judges are usually called "Your Honour" and sometimes "My Lord or Lady" both are usually decided by a jury.
High Court judges (the highest level) with a jury of 12 men and women who determine guilt are addressed as "My Lord or My Lady"
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Do you think that trials, as they're going on, should be televised and broadcast about the world? Seems 'us' the viewing public love to watch and broadcasting trials (the big ones) are big TV money makers. Should we really be privy to Oscar sobbing or do you think that this should be private?

My own personal view is that while the entire trial can be captured it should only be shown or released to the public "in full" (so as to avoid editing that might skew what is going on) once the trial is over and verdict and sentencing handed down. I really don't believe we should be seeing it "as it happens."
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Horus »

I take the opposite view LLL, unless it involves something that is say national security or maybe where children are involved then the whole process should be in the open. In the UK and I suspect most other countries you can walk into the public gallery of any courthouse and watch any trial that takes your fancy, it is a tenant of British law that "justice has to be seen to be done".
In the case of someone famous it would be almost impossible to get a place inside the court and saying as the public interest is so great then I see no problem in televising the trial. You can see the whole process taking place and make up your own mind as many did with the OJ Simpson trial and in that case most people could see that justice was certainly not done. I would agree that when someone is distressed it is unfair to intrude upon that, but inside of the court he is unaware of the TV coverage as it is unobtrusive, the other alternative is that you would just get the version given to you by a TV or Newspaper reporter.

I watched the Michael Jackson trial and found it to be fascinating and I could follow all the evidence quite easily and come to the same conclusion as the court did, now had I not witnessed it first hand I may have had an entirely different opinion. Also as it is the judge that is deciding his guilt I would not think that TV coverage would influence that decision in any way, it may do for a jury and that is why they are forbidden to talk about the case, read newspapers or watch TV or internet coverage whilst the trial goes on.
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Anybody laying odds as to whether Oscar will be found guilty or not guilty and what his sentence will be? Coming up real soon .......

I personally believe he is guilty and will be found guilty. All the other info will only come into play in his sentence.

The entire scenario is pretty sad as I do believe the man has overcome quite a few obstacles and could have been an excellent role model for many with handicaps. Now he'll find himself behind bars IMO.
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Horus »

I think he will be found guilty as I cannot see any other outcome, afterall he did fire several bullets through a door knowing that there was someone behind it. Whether that person was his girlfriend or a burglar the intent was and must have been to kill someone, so it has to be guilty to murder. Now as to the mitigation that the judge takes into account it is more difficult to say, I saw him as a potentially aggresive and manipulating character who got angry and just lost it in a fit of rage, the judge however may be swayed be his 'all a big mistake' argument and so mitigate his sentence somewhat. Either way he must be looking at 5 years at least and a lot more if the judge sees through his story, one thing I do know is that watching her mother and family in the court, they are certainly not convinced by his account of what happened.
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Grandad »

I think you have judged it about right Horus. I have always felt that Oscar has a bit of a chip on his shoulder, perhaps some latent resentment about losing both his legs. There is no doubt in my mind that he is short tempered and the shooting probably occurred in a fit of rage. Not premeditated so I agree, around 5 to 8 years is about the most likely sentence.
:gg:
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I can't see him, at all, being found innocent. His only argument, IMO, is whether it was premeditated or not. Probably wasn't but he WAS definitely quick to the draw and did fire well more than 1 bullet.
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Well Oscar definitely hasn't been found guilty! Definitely a bit of a cliff hanger as to the final decision.
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Grandad »

So the judge has convicted him of culpable homicide. Opinion is that the likely sentence will be 7 to 10 and this will be handed down in a couple of weeks.

If that is how south African justice works, it moves at a very slow pace.......
:gg:
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by Horus »

I watched the evidence given by two friends of his, so they both had no reason to want to incriminate him and tell lies and they had both been interogated under a police caution and both said that he fired a gun through the open car roof after an earlier altercation with the police, so why was he found not guilty on that charge? One of them even stated that he thought that his eardrum had been damaged by the explosion being so close to his ear as he was driving the car at the time.
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Re: Oscar in Africa

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

This is definitely definitely interesting. Given his past history I'd of definitely thought guilty of murder but :dun:

Culpable homicide? :dun: (Don't think that is what I would have found)
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